sponce Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 it's just too obvious for Martins style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Ah, but people thinking it's her (and them having a reason to go to her because of that) IS NOT the same as it actually being her. If it's meant to be a plot driver, then a bunch of people coming to the wrong conclusion works the same way as if they'd come to the right one. Well yeah, I agree that it doesn't necessarily prove she's Azor Ahai reborn... but neither does it disprove that she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im no Ser Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 GRRM pretty much confirmed its the same person on the religion video for the show.Didn't see the video in question, but I don't believe anything until it is in the books. GRRM isn't under oath for any of his SSM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 For now.True. I actually think we might get a much darker Jon when he comes back. Probably not full blown Lady Stoneheart, but not the same, like Beric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Not really, Jon is pretty typical fantasy hero.Jon is archetype hero, but we still have two more books to see whether he is just typical...Lol I didn't say it was... I was just correcting your assertion that Valyrian words are gender neutral.Personally I think Dany was "confirmed" as AAR because it's now relevant to the plot that she's AAR... It's the reason Marwyn travels to her, it's the reason Moqorro travels to her, and it's probably one of the reasons she will go to war against Aegon.But it would be cool to presume that all Valyrian words are gender neutral. Then I could imagine Sansa being Cersei's valonqar (as sister-in-law) :)And the more people travel to her, the more it's suspicious to me...Aemon's conclusion should be suspect for another reason: He thinks that Dany is the only Targaryen left, whereas we know it's the case.Interesting... Honestly, never thought that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 it's just too obvious for Martins styleIf it's so "obvious," that it's Dany, then why does everyone here think it's really Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Well yeah, I agree that it doesn't necessarily prove she's Azor Ahai reborn... but neither does it disprove that she is.Then why did you present it as if that was the case? You said the reason she was confirmed was because it's now relevant to the plot, and I pointed out that isn't necessarily true. People thinking she is AA is certainly relevant, but that doesn't mean she IS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If it's so "obvious," that it's Dany, then why does everyone here think it's really Jon?Because people is not clear about TPTWP and Azor Ahai. I think, for example, that they are tow different theories. Some people thinks they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sponce Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If it's so "obvious," that it's Dany, then why does everyone here think it's really Jon?If it's so "obvious," that it's Dany, then why does everyone here think it's really Jon? I don't think it's Dany I think It's a red herring it's too obviously her that it's NOT HER if you read my last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Then why did you present it as if that was the case? You said the reason she was confirmed was because it's now relevant to the plot, and I pointed out that isn't necessarily true. People thinking she is AA is certainly relevant, but that doesn't mean she IS.I thought I was clear. If Dany is AAR, then revealing it "early" would be necessary to get the plot moving. I never said it proved she was AAR, just that it may explain why it was revealed "early". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because people is not clear about TPTWP and Azor Ahai. I think, for example, that they are tow different theories. Some people thinks they are the same.What if you think they are two different versions of the same legend? Like how the Greeks and the Romans had a lot of the same myths, just the Romans called things different names? Or like how there's a different version of the legend of Maui everywhere the Polynesians settled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I thought I was clear. If Dany is AAR, then revealing it "early" would be necessary to get the plot moving. I never said it proved she was AAR, just that it may explain why it was revealed "early".I agree. "Revealing" Dany as AAR doesn't prove she actually IS AAR, surely, but it doesn't disprove it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because people is not clear about TPTWP and Azor Ahai. I think, for example, that they are tow different theories. Some people thinks they are the same.I think they are the same as someone pointed out martin used them interchangeably in an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuve Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 So far the evidence presented AGAINST Dany is that all the evidence points TOWARDS her... that doesn't make a lot of sense. Besides "GRRM is a subtle, trope-inverting writer," what actual evidence is there for Jon over Dany? A single line from Melisandre? Perhaps there's a key piece of evidence I'm missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because people is not clear about TPTWP and Azor Ahai. I think, for example, that they are tow different theories. Some people thinks they are the same.Well that, and most people on here are much more analytical than your average reader. Meaning we tend to pick up patterns and repeated tics of the author's. One of which, to me, is, if someone says that X fulfills a prophecy, they don't. That's not just true for AA, by the way. Look at Cersei's prophecy. But for casual readers who don't pick up on that, Dany IS the obvious choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sponce Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I agree withaudrey i think they are the same...two sides to the same coin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 But for casual readers who don't pick up on that, Dany IS the obvious choice.I'd like to know who these casual readers are. Because my Dad's never been near a message board in his life and he thinks it's Jon.So if GRRM is floating all these "Dany is AAR" things specifically to mislead the audience, he's doing a bad job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 What if you think they are two different versions of the same legend? Like how the Greeks and the Romans had a lot of the same myths, just the Romans called things different names? Or like how there's a different version of the legend of Maui everywhere the Polynesians settled?I think they are the same as someone pointed out martin used them interchangeably in an interview.I have always thought Dany is AAR and Jon TPTWP, but that's just me, my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 What if you think they are two different versions of the same legend? Like how the Greeks and the Romans had a lot of the same myths, just the Romans called things different names? Or like how there's a different version of the legend of Maui everywhere the Polynesians settled?There's a theory that AAR, TPWWP and the Stallion who Mounts the World are all the same figure. I think the Last Hero is definitely a separate figure, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 There are plenty of reasonable arguments against Dany being AAR and/or PTWP, but lets face it, the people who argue that tend to be the people who don't like her.None of us know who if anybody fulfills these prophecies. We don't even know it has to be one person. Prophecy is always ambiguous. Interpreting them is folly because we filter them through are own biases.Not that any of us shouldn't try. It's fun! I like dark horse contender Brienne myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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