Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I just recently joined this forum, and when I read all the books I didnt think she was, I didnt even put alot of highlight into the AAR prophecy but when I read the chapter of Maester Aemon saying it I was shocked and just realized that it is actually her, since she was born on Dragonstone amidst smoke and salt.Other people I know that aren't on the forums had similar reactions and were kinda shocked of her being the prince that was promised, cause it seemed soo likely that it would be a male cause of "prince".I often hear that Dany is a red herring on the forum but I dont think so I think the "prince" that was promised was the red herring that it was supposed to be a male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know maester Aemon says the Valyrian word "prince" is gender neutral, but really I think a large proportion of the fans are just married to the idea that it's Jon. He's the dude with the secret origin, the cool pet, the magical powers, the "king arthur" style maturity and leadership beyond his tender years trusted and followed by everyone who knows him (except, ya know, when they kill him)... So he best fits the "Prophesy'd hero" mold as it's traditionally presented.I know Danaerys is the long lost princess with some cool pets of her own, which is probably where the label of it being "cliche" that she'd be the AAR comes from. Personally I think the idea that the "prince" might have been a girl this whole time would a pretty cool "red herring" all on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Valyrian words are gender neutral so it could be either male or female...The problem most of us have with Dany isn't about her gender but the fact everything fits too perfectly... Since Martin is extremly great author, it's natural to suspect that Dany is the PTWP. After all, in all good novels, all pieces of evidence pointing at a killer, means usually that the person isn't a killer. Simply, the more pieces fits, the more suspicious I get... No prophecy or vision fit that perfectly in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I know maester Aemon says the Valyrian word "prince" is gender neutral, but really I think a large proportion of the fans are just married to the idea that it's Jon. He's the dude with the secret origin, the cool pet, the magical powers, the "king arthur" style maturity and leadership beyond his tender years trusted and followed by everyone who knows him (except, ya know, when they kill him)... So he best fits the "Prophesy'd hero" mold as it's traditionally presented.I know Danaerys is the long lost princess with some cool pets of her own, which is probably where the label of it being "cliche" that she'd be the AAR comes from. Personally I think the idea that the "prince" might have been a girl this whole time would a pretty cool "red herring" all on it's own.I agree cause my mind was blown when I heard that Maester Aemon comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I don't think it's cliche so much as I strongly doubt that GRRM would outright "solve" the mystery in the story, when most truths he expects us to figure out on our own. So as soon as Aemon seemed to confirm that it was Dany, I was pretty sure that it either wasn't the case at all, or that it was the case but something else was going on (like Azor Ahai being an antagonist).The clues are there such that we shouldn't NEED Aemon to spell it out. The fact that he did makes the whole thing reek of misdirection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Valyrian words are gender neutral so it could be either male or female...The problem most of us have with Dany isn't about her gender but the fact everything fits too perfectly... Since Martin is extremly great author, it's natural to suspect that Dany is the PTWP. After all, in all good novels, all pieces of evidence pointing at a killer, means usually that the person isn't a killer. Simply, the more pieces fits, the more suspicious I get... No prophecy or vision fit that perfectly in ASOIAF.Yea it could be male or female, but my point is that everyone in the series thought it was male so wouldn't it be a red herring if its actually a princess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I personally think it being Jon would be more the typical fantasy way to go, I believe its Dany. She was born amidst smoke and salt, has hatched stone dragons, and so on. No matter who it ends being, some people will call it cliche, some will like it, can't please everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yea it could be male or female, but my point is that everyone in the series thought it was male so wouldn't it be a red herring if its actually a princess?Aemon saying it's Dany IS the red herring. If everyone thought it was a male and then it ended up being Dany, without anyone in-story guessing it was her, THEN the gender thing could be a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I don't think it's cliche so much as I strongly doubt that GRRM would outright "solve" the mystery in the story, when most truths he expects us to figure out on our own. So as soon as Aemon seemed to confirm that it was Dany, I was pretty sure that it either wasn't the case at all, or that it was the case but something else was going on (like Azor Ahai being an antagonist).The clues are there such that we shouldn't NEED Aemon to spell it out. The fact that he did makes the whole thing reek of misdirection.I wouldnt mind Azor Azhai being an antagonist I think with the route Dany is going it would be really fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yea it could be male or female, but my point is that everyone in the series thought it was male so wouldn't it be a red herring if its actually a princess?Thing is Daby here serves as red herring. Throughout entire series, it's heavily hinted it's her... It's like we had giant finger pointed on her, or the sign PTWP on her back... Simply, that doesn't work that way, especially in mistery novels, and this is partly one. Also, who are everyone in the series? No one seems to know about the prophecy about PTWP, IIRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Thing is Daby here serves as red herring. Throughout entire series, it's heavily hinted it's her... It's like we had giant finger pointed on her, or the sign PTWP on her back... Simply, that doesn't work that way, especially in mistery novels, and this is partly one. Also, who are everyone in the series? No one seems to know about the prophecy about PTWP, IIRC?The people that believe in it Rhaegar, Mel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because all of Dany's potential fulfillment happened in the first book and we're still talking about it in the 5th book. It would just seem almost silly for it to be Dany at this point, plus a bit too obvious for something the author seems to want to keep mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Everyone DOES think AAR is male. Melisandre still thinks it's Stannis. Almost every fan I've talked to thinks it's Jon. The only one who doesn't think so is Aemon and he died before he could tell anyone besides Sam, who's not familiar with the prophesy in the first place and didn't take it that seriously.And even after the "it's a red herring for anyone to think it's Dany, GRRM is trying to mislead us," I haven't found anyone who was...well, mislead. Before and after Aemon, everyone here STILL thinks it's Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because all of Dany's potential fulfillment happened in the first book and we're still talking about it in the 5th book. It would just seem almost silly for it to be Dany at this point, plus a bit too obvious for something the author seems to want to keep mysterious.Thats the real question that needs to be answered.Obvious for people on forums?Or obvious for the general fanbase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Because all of Dany's potential fulfillment happened in the first book and we're still talking about it in the 5th book. It would just seem almost silly for it to be Dany at this point, plus a bit too obvious for something the author seems to want to keep mysterious.Statements like this are how I know that no matter how GRRM has the actual prophesies fall out, someone somewhere will call it "obvious" and "cliche" and say they expected better from an author who wants to subvert expectations.I'll stay away from the internet those days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Dragone Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 On this forum it seems that every theory that someone doesn't agree with is cliche or too obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Personally, I think the AAR and PTWP prophecies themselves could be the red herring. It could be a reverse Macbeth sort of thing. Different characters will see themselves in prophecy and try to make it come true with tragic results.Ultimately, people guess that AAR is the character they do like and couldn't possibly be the character they don't like. I'm sure the ending won't be cliché and stupid, whatever happens. I trust GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 On this forum it seems that every theory that someone doesn't agree with is cliche or too obvious.Especially where prophesies and magic are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Valyrian words are gender neutral so it could be either male or female... Where's the proof that all Valyrian words are gender neutral??? All we know is that the Valyrian word for "dragon" is gender neutral, because dragons switch freely between genders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Its funny cause I at first thought maybe Dany could be the Tptwp, because I thought she was the only Targaryen (yes I didn't realize the R+L = J). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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