What's with the Sandor “Hotness”?

[DogLover]

"Fuck her bloody and ripped her heard out...." Rape. And murder.

As for commenting on her body, that again is not proof of sexual desire. It is an observation of what she has become, which may related to what happened to his sister, what he knews may happen to her now that she has flowered, etc.. It is just as consistent with force and violence (especially when combined with the knife) as it is sex or romance. He may very well see her maturation as a sign that she will now be abused in KL even more than she was before.

Right. So to the extent Sansa describes Sandor having any romantic interest in her, that is unrealiable.

Now, I think the underlying problem with the whole "SanSan" debate is this -- some proponents of that theory have confused the text being consistent with that theory as the text being proof of that theory. And some opponents have confused a lack of proof with proof that "Sansan" does not exist. In truth, there are enough ambiguities in the text that either is possible.

I personally don't buy it, in part because I have a hard time conceiving of an author like Martin approving of a western relationship of sexual desire between a 29 year old man and a 13 year old girl who only just had her first period. Especially ones with overtones of violence and brutality (the knife, his roughness, "fuck her bloody) from that man. As an older man, that thought repulses me.

One cannot be accused and convicted of rape and murder unless he/she commits the act of rape and murder. I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. It seems that at times you argue Sandor is merely a fatherly/brotherly protector motivated by what happened to his sister, but at other times you argue that he is a violent brute guilty of the rape and murder of Sansa, or at least guilty of wanting to rape and murder her.

Place the comment about her body in context, it is sexually charged. He's not recognizing or even warning her of what her flowering can bring. He comments that she's "almost a woman" and then checks himself by then saying "Nah, you're just a girl..." There is no indication he's concerned that she'll be abused even more so because she's becoming a woman. He's admiring her.

I'm not arguing that Sansa's invention of the unkiss supports that Sandor has romantic feelings for her. The evidence comes from Sandor's actions. Not just the many times he places himself at risk in King's Landing, but the fact that he couldn't shut up about her during his many misadventures with Arya even though she had no interest in engaging him. Most poignant was the scene at the inn when he found out about Sansa's marriage to Tyrion and his deathbed confession, which I honestly think has been misinterpreted and misconstrued. He did not go to Sansa's room the night of the Battle of the Blackwater to rape her. He went there to offer her an escape and offer her his protection. One does not switch off protector mode and on to rapist mode. He reacted badly to what he perceived as rejection for a number of reasons--PTSD, exhaustion from battle, and extreme inebriation just to mention a few.

As far as not believing that an author like Martin could condone a romantic relationship between a 13-year-old girl and a 29-year-old man, how do you explain Dany/Drogo? GRRM literally said he considered their relationship to be a love story. And Drogo IS a violent rapist.

Several posters here have made the claim that Sandor doesn't want Sansa for her claim but the truth of the matter is Sandor was never in a position to try to marry her for her claim. Saying he purposely doesn't want it is a bit disingenuous since he was never a viable candidate to try to get his hands on her claim. Sure he doesn't go after it - it's not even a remote possibility so giving him praise for not making a grab for it is strange.

:bs: Many opportunistic lowborn men use highborn women as a power grab. Ramsay and Lady Hornwood, Bronn and Lady Stokeworth, Littlefinger and Sansa, and Justin Massey and Asha. Sandor is not ambitious, that's why his affection for Sansa is endearing for so many. He isn't interested in social climbing and his feelings for Sansa are genuine.

[Florina Laufeyson]

GRRM literally said he considered their relationship to be a love story.

GRRM is also VERY much into the whole Beauty and the Beast story. He even wrote the 80s TV show with Linda Hamlton and Ron Perlman. I remember seeing it and Beast was HELLA Byronic/Anti-Hero. In fact, he was very similar to Sandor in a lot of ways. I didnt watch the whole series because i was really young and it dealt with a lot of adult themes. I should find that and watch it again...

So it doesnt surprise me at all that GRRM considers Sandor and Sansa's story together a love story.

[nirolo]

Weird. Because it's just as prevalent as Sansan in this board (and there are people in this thread who ship it).

:bs:

Page 1: Tyrion is mentioned once here; that poster is not a Tyrion/Sansa shipper.

Page 2: Tyrion is mentioned four times by two poster here, here, here, and here; last time I checked neither DogLover nor Rapsie is a Tyrion/Sansa shipper.

Page 3: Tyrion is not mentioned once. Zip. None. Nada.

Page 4: Tyrion is mentioned five times by four posters here, here, here, here, and here; only two posts that might be interpreted as shipping Tyrion and Sansa (quoted below), and personally I don't think they are. The poster is making a simple statement, which is that if Sansa didn't even have romantic feelings for Tyrion (thus denying the Tyrion/Sansa ship) then there is no way Sansa would have the googly eyes for Sandor. If anything, that poster is denying SanSan rather than promoting Tyrion/Sansa. So page 4, final count, zero Tyrion/Sansa shippers.

No, no, no, and no. There's no way Sansa would feel anything romantic towards The Hound. She didn't feel anything for Tyrion who was forced on to her, even though he showed way more kindness towards her than Sandor ever will. IMO it was just a lesson for Sansa that not all good-looking knights are chivalrous, and not chivalrous knights are good-looking. Unless, of course, she likes the bad boys.

But you would think she would have more love for Tyrion than for Sandor, regardless of whether or not they were forced on each other. He may be a Lannister but he at least has shown some kindness towards the Starks and has saved Sansa from Jofferys wrath on more than one occasion. The Hound has done nothing for Sansa except a drunken promise for rescue, in which she would have probably been raped then held for ransom. Clearly not the ideal lifestyle she would have chosen. Sansa may have had some created some feeling towards Sandor, which would just tie in to her naivety and innocence. But it's just stupid to think that Sandor would have had any feelings towards her other than some sick fantasy which would would make him out to be a pervert and ruin his character.

Page 5: Tyrion is mentioned three times by three posters here, here, and here; not one of these posters is a Tyrion/Sansa shipper. Moving on.

Page 6: Tyrion is mentioned two times by two posters here and here; surprise surprise, neither is a Tyrion/Sansa shipper.

Page 7: This is where you said there are in fact Tyrion/Sansa shippers in this thread...

So please, link one post in this thread that shipped Tyrion/Sansa.

In conclusion, I think this simple exercise is enough to show the absurdity of your initial statement.

[LordStoneheart]

Please... I feel so filthy after reading this... I simply can't put those two together in any way... But I will always remember the most "intelligent" comment about Sansa "she should have tried to work on that marriage"...

Dancing on the grave of Lady Lannister idea :)

I'll do you one better... "she couldn't even fake a little lust in bed," refering to their marriage.

Out of all the horrid comments on this forum that one I'll always remember

[nirolo]

Hmmm... well this seems like a great time for an awkward link to how taking things out of context results in any interpretation one desires... and hilarity:

.

Actually, the show probably made that particular fantasy much more prevalent, in part because Tyrion is a reasonably nicer guy.

:lol:

Well, yeah. Everything looks good when you throw in Morgan Freeman.

ETA:

.

Just an excerpt from this enlightening documentary:

"...When Morgan Freeman makes a documentary film he narrates it first, and then Nature makes it so..."

[Raksha the Demon]

Like many readers, I first read the Hound as your typical violent, sadistic henchmen, but later in A Game of Thrones appreciated Martin's efforts to show how he got that way and how he still has some tiny bits of human kindness left in him.

However, some readers interpret the character very differently: as a romantic ideal, especially for Sansa Stark. This makes readers like me think: WHAT THE FUCK?

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, a deleted scene from Season 2 will keep this post shorter than it otherwise would be:

.

We see a terrified Sansa being hurt by a contemptuous and lewd Sandor. Add a knife held to her throat and one would have a very good adaptation of the book relationship.

Yeah, yeah, I know Sandor on a few occasions step forward to protect her, usually from Joffrey. I get that he is a gray character. If he had a better childhood and worked for a family not morally black as the Lannisters he might have grown up to be an OK guy. If and buts, this describes most criminals. Sandor Clegane throughout the novels is every father's nightmare boyfriend for their daughter.

So, why all the “SanSan” fans? I think I found the answer, or at least somewhat answering a similar question in a way that makes sense to my latent paternal male instinct. I'm not going to take credit for another guy's work (or rather another guy with a much larger social media following asking a very similar question), so here's another link: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/39300-nostalgia-critic-why-is-loki-so-hot .

Mark Walker asks and answers why Loki from the Avengers movie was the source of so many fanfictions, drawings, cosplays, and what not, despite being a “not-very-handsome” villain. Here are the reasons. I do recommend people like me confounded by "SanSan" fandom watch the original thing in its entirety.

1. The actor that plays him does a good job with the role.
   
   
2. He's powerful.
   
   
3. He's a “bad boy.”
   
   
4. He's a “woobie,” which is a made up term for a character who the viewer/reader feels sorry for.
   

Clearly, Loki and Sandor are not one-to-one equivalent. However, certain parallels can certainly be drawn. Women are attracted to powerful men and dangerous men. Why? Because they can be powerful and dangerous in the service of protecting them. Of course, the Loki/Sandor must also show some vulnerability. Perhaps a lot of vulnerability. Because that vulnerability is where not only a woman can put here nurturing nature to use, but also win the heart and devotion of that man.

Also closely entwined is the concept of “being the only one.” When a man has completely failed to find love in his life, that just means he has found the “true love,” that special girl, of which there is only one, who can reach his heart and make him whole. Because romance is so much sweeter when probability so clearly does not favor it. Relevant: http://what-if.xkcd.com/9/ . Regardless, by virtue of being literately the only woman that can make a man complete, that women monopolizes his devotion 10 fold, knowing he can never replace her.

So, that sort of makes sense. I am also gagging a bit right now. Notice it doesn't make Sandor Clegane any less violent, troubled, and so not going to date my daughter marry Sansa. Obviously the guy ran down Mycah and slew him from horseback. He also was an active participant in the slaughter of the Stark household. The latter was after Eddard Stark had attainted and condemned his brother to die. Did that earn any brownie points from this man? And apparently, I am not alone in this assessment. Some guy named George finds the “SanSan” crowds “interesting”:

So, I think its entirely safe to say, if you see Sandor Clegane as this wonderful specimen of man that any young girl would be lucky to have... you don't get it. Sure, Martin may play with some degree of sexual tension between the two, but much like Victorian's erection when Asha proposes he let her be his hand, we're suppose to cringe. I mean, Sandor held a knife to Sansa's throat and demanded she sing for him. WHAT THE FUCK?

PS) I'm totally hoping for a Sandor Clegane as High Septon by series end.

While I think the "SanSan" relationship in the books is fascinating; and I have been known to read "SanSan fanfic"; I definitely don't think the pair is ready for anything resembling what I would consider a healthy relationship. Sansa is an abused girl trapped as the pawn of sociopaths (Joffrey, Littlefinger); while Sandor's emotional development is stunted somewhere in adolescence and he's also an alcoholic and homicidal. A healthy pairing - NOT! I could only see them ending up together if/when Sansa survived to grow up, at least a few years, and Sandor went through some heavy therapy on the Quiet Isle and succeeded in reinventing himself (in which case he might not be so appealing to Sansa anymore).

And I could totally see Sandor becoming a devotee of the Seven and even the High Septon; he's a frustrated/embittered wannabe idealist and the Faith could be a perfect outlet for his rather passionate nature. Picture him and Sansa in 10 years as the Abelard and Heloise of Westeros, hopefully without Sandor suffering what happened to Abelard. Or just picture him as a High Septon actually trying to be a good man and Seven-pope, whatever, with or without Sansa.

But in no way are Sansa and Sandor, as we last saw them, suited for each other, romantically. I do think they will connect again, they have a lot of unfinished business, emotionally, and they could help each other. But that does not necessarily mean they would fall happily into each other's arms in the process; in fact, they might be very disappointed in how the other has turned out - Sansa probably won't be the innocent Little Bird anymore; and Sandor may be a Septon rather than a fighter; and tell Sansa that he never kissed her...

As for movie-Loki; well, I did appreciate Tom Hiddleston's outstanding performances in Thor and Avengers; but if the situation were real; I would stay the heck away from the guy, because he is just simply Bad, Bad news. I'd do better trying to seduce the Hulk.

[LordStoneheart]

I'd do better trying to seduce the Hulk.

HULK SMASH!

[Woman of War]

So it doesnt surprise me at all that GRRM considers Sandor and Sansa's story together a love story.

Oh yes it is a kind of love story, just like Tyrion and Sansa or Baelish and Sansa are. Martin is definitely playing with different versions here and we will have to wait if any of these subplots will lead into a sexual encounter, into tragedy, deep love or into something like a happy ending. The author deliberately plays with different versions and may give false hints all the way through the books since he already knows the ending. The different story versions will all play out at a certain moment of the books, having their plot function precisely then and when that moment is gone this story part will have served its purpose. For example Sandor is built up to save Sansa from whatever and to sacrifice himself, the dog who dies for her.....

The only thing I do not believe will happen is a happily ever after for Baelish and Sansa gone evil, she will separate from him or go down with him. Anything else is possible, there may even interfere a fourth of fifth party, like Aegon or Gendry. Storywise all of that could make for a great plot, except Baelish and Sansa living a happy life after having devastated the world, too anticlimactic. I would have small compunctions about Sansa and Tyrion since I believe there are so many more interesting women out there for Tyrion (so far but both protagonists will change). I might enjoy Sansa and Aegon living a happy dollhouse life (he won't stay king) or Sansa and her blacksmith (he may even be king). And if this subplot is meant to end in pointless fairytale she may finally have her unwashed reformed limping reborn dog, that will make for enchanting coffeetable conversation - off screen, when the books are over, unfortunately this sitcom will never be written. Do I care? Not really.

In the end a female character should have more plot possibilities than with whom she ends up, I dislike digging for shipping everywhere, the story is not made for romantics but for its own sake and love stories serve the plot and the character illustration, not more.

And yet there may happen something in the story that will make me root for Sansa, then I will gladly change my mind and declare her my second favorite character, actually I am hoping for something like that since she is one of the few female characters in the books I am a little indifferent about, and certainly not for her "childhood sins" since she was a child back then. I want to see her attempting to actively shape her fate, she may fail but the literary character would get my attention (well, she is not a real person, otherwise I would say: this person would get my respect even in failure).

And that is the point: Sansa and Sandor are not more than literary inventions, we can safely fantasize about them, the big guy in bed with the clueless virginal redhead, doing all kinds of stuff. There is a lot of hot fanfic out there and I thoroughly dislike it since the author is entitled to his inventions (not that I did not have a glimpse.... :D), not my kind of stuff, Sandor is as sexy as unwashed socks and rotten food in my bed, and may he please keep his mouth shut, sorry, but to each her own.

But if fans go over the top and take this - hot or dirty, up to you - little fantasy game as real life situation, with all its aspects of abuse and violence, with all acceptance from "the woman's" side for the thrill of violence and strength from "her" man, the joy of being owned by a strong dominating male with the big, ah, knife and the illusion that she is the one to redeem, to change him - then I fear for their health. Guys like that do not change. As woman you should drop them like a hot potato and run. Or for the rest of your life you tell your neighbours that you "have fallen down the stairs".

Of course there is the thrill of the "beast" lover, contrary to the "hero" lover. A hero has obligations, he has to behave heroically for everyone, he owes it to the public, that' s what makes him a hero. So you have to share your lover with public opinion. No privacy here.

While the "beast" hero is a secret hero, only for you alone, you do not have to share him, since no one knows about your common secret: under the threatening surface he is a good guy and yours alone. You only have to dig for it. In fairy tales you will succeed in the end, that' s why it is fairy tale.... And happily ever after, ding dong, hear the bells.

Only in RL you dig and dig and the good guy never shows up under the surface despite all your dreams and !wham! you end in a shelter for battered women. This unreflected SanSan concept is what makes me furious and even leads to liking Sansa less than I normally would. Although it does not diminish my interest in Sandor's storyline. He is twisted in an interesting way despite being cruel and evil, so his infatuation with Sansa only adds an extra layer, good for the plot.

And I could totally see Sandor becoming a devotee of the Seven and even the High Septon; he's a frustrated/embittered wannabe idealist and the Faith could be a perfect outlet for his rather passionate nature.  Picture him and Sansa in 10 years as the Abelard and Heloise of Westeros.....

Yes, the confrontation of a Sandor character with religious belief written by an agnostic like Martin could be very differenciated and enlightening.

Apart from that - what does it tell us if all those hugely interesting female characters with so much life in them are not good enough for that amount of intense erotic shipping while the little girl is?

[Mladen]

I'll do you one better... "she couldn't even fake a little lust in bed," refering to their marriage.

Out of all the horrid comments on this forum that one I'll always remember

Yes, that one was the one I was aiming :)...

Apart from that - what does it tell us if all those hugely interesting female characters with so much life in them are not good enough for that amount of intense erotic shipping while the little girl is?

I have just thought I might read a new argument... Needless to say I was wrong... As always I must express my amazement how some people deal more with other people's opinion and not book material... Interesting trait of those unable to comprehend nuances of the literary work like ASOIAF...

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Many opportunistic lowborn men use highborn women as a power grab. Ramsay and Lady Hornwood, Bronn and Lady Stokeworth, Littlefinger and Sansa, and Justin Massey and Asha. Sandor is not ambitious, that's why his affection for Sansa is endearing for so many. He isn't interested in social climbing and his feelings for Sansa are genuine.

Some of these examples are not low born men plotting to use highborn women. Bronn was "given" Lady Stokeworth, he made no play for her or her lands. I'd say Sandor most resembles Bronn in this since neither of them were focused on strategically marrying up but were still concerned with making a good living for themselves doing what they do best. However, my claim that Sandor never had a rat's chance to make a grab for Winterfell through Sansa in no way reflects what he feels for her or the genuine-ness of his feelings. Are you just looking for things to argue about?

But that does not necessarily mean they would fall happily into each other's arms in the process; in fact, they might be very disappointed in how the other has turned out - Sansa probably won't be the innocent Little Bird anymore; and Sandor may be a Septon rather than a fighter; and tell Sansa that he never kissed her...

I have often thought this is how things will turn out. They both had an empowering, emotional moment in King's Landing that will probably never be recreated.

Apart from that - what does it tell us if all those hugely interesting female characters with so much life in them are not good enough for that amount of intense erotic shipping while the little girl is?

This is an interesting thought. Sansan's appeal continues to grow and I'm not sure what it is that inspires such erotic discussion and emotional defense while the other women in the series do not. I wonder if it is a desire to protect and root for 'little bird' Sansa given the difficult situations she continues to find herself in. It will be interesting to see what the controversy for her will be in the next book and reader reaction but I doubt it will make any difference to her fans. Just as with other characters in this series, the first impressions seem to be much stronger than the arc changes Martin puts them through so opinions don't move as much as I think he wants them to many times.

I have just thought I might read a new argument... Needless to say I was wrong... As always I must express my amazement how some people deal more with other people's opinion and not book material... Interesting trait of those unable to comprehend nuances of the literary work like ASOIAF...

This type of response, along with your frequent complaining of having to repeat yourself, really isn't the most positive or effective way to handle opinions or comments you don't agree with. Just some food for thought...

[nirolo]

[Rant]

By my count, I have so far seen more from posters pontificating on the evils and absurdities of a Tyrion/Sansa ship than from posters who actually advocate for such a ship. Can someone please tell me why this is?

Why does an imaginary Tyrion/Sansa ship have to be broached in a SanSan thread? This puzzles me. Out of nowhere someone will make an offhand comment about how they could never understand someone’s wish to see Sansa end up with Tyrion. Immediately, other like-minded posters will begin to chant the same tune and denounce it with the wrath of a thousand suns – often turning it into a public bonding exercise of sorts. Very bizarre.

How does the existence of Tyrion/Sansa shippers relate to SanSan exactly? Does its existence somehow lend more or less legitimacy to SanSan? Sure, the suggestion of a possible future romance between Tyrion and Sansa is a troubling one. Are people supposed to conclude from this that SanSan is now less troubling? I certainly hope not. Just because one idea is bad does not make the alternative good. They are equally troubling.

I sincerely hope people are not brining up Tyrion/Sansa to make SanSan look good by comparison. Because it's a lazy way to argue.

[/Rant]

OP,

You know how in the dark, the light always shines brighter? I think it's the same with Sandor. Because Sandor is portrayed early on as a bloodthirsty killer with little sign of remorse or empathy, when he does display the occasional kindness towards someone, it tends to make a bigger splash in the minds of readers than when the same act of kindness comes from a goody two-shoes.

It’s the same reason why I like Tyrion and Jaime. They are not good people. But, to quote Jaime, they will get these “fits of gallantry from time to time” and when it happens, their other flaws become less visible to us.

There is also the fact that the Hound is threatening, but not towards Sansa, which will instantly make him a heartthrob. He has the exterior of a hellhound but an inside that is made of a wounded puppy—awww, who can say no to that?!? There is also the important issue of what Sansa wants. She seems to harbor romantic feelings for the Hound, so it is not hard to find her fans trying to see things through her eyes. Just like my opinion of Tyrion would drop dramatically had Jon Snow not liked Tyrion at the beginning, I’m sure many SanStans would not be in favor of a SanSan ship had Sansa herself not liked it.

Not to mention, of course, the Hound is also a rebel (“I’ll say no knight’s vows” when made a KG), modest (doesn’t brag about defeating the Mountain or saving Sansa from the mob), jaded (“I am no ser”), brutally honest (“Fuck your ser, Boros. You’re the knight, not me. I’m the king’s dog, remember”), and somewhat of a trailblazer (the first non-knight to be in the KG). So I’m sure he has enough qualities for people to find him attractive. You know, in the same general sort of way the one might find Brienne attractive.

Hands up in the air for more GoT

! :commie: :commie: :commie:

[Mladen]

This type of response, along with your frequent complaining of having to repeat yourself, really isn't the most positive or effective way to handle opinions or comments you don't agree with. Just some food for thought...

Thank you, but there are pointless arguments, and I find this one to be pointless... Simply, as "sexually unfulfilled person who projects his sexual daydreaming on fictional character", I have nothing to say to those that look at me that way... You should have seen previous 2345 version of that same post and then attack me...

[Lady Lea]

<snip>

Wow you sure have a lot of free time on your hands, but you didn't read what I wrote very carefully. I said in the BOARD, not it this thread. Go on, do a search for Mrs Lannister (any one of the thousands of versions of that thread). There are plenty of others too. And at least one of the card-carrying TySan shippers of the board are in this thread even though they haven't mentioned the ship here.

[juanml82]

One cannot be accused and convicted of rape and murder unless he/she commits the act of rape and murder. I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. It seems that at times you argue Sandor is merely a fatherly/brotherly protector motivated by what happened to his sister, but at other times you argue that he is a violent brute guilty of the rape and murder of Sansa, or at least guilty of wanting to rape and murder her.

Place the comment about her body in context, it is sexually charged. He's not recognizing or even warning her of what her flowering can bring. He comments that she's "almost a woman" and then checks himself by then saying "Nah, you're just a girl..." There is no indication he's concerned that she'll be abused even more so because she's becoming a woman. He's admiring her.

I'm not arguing that Sansa's invention of the unkiss supports that Sandor has romantic feelings for her. The evidence comes from Sandor's actions. Not just the many times he places himself at risk in King's Landing, but the fact that he couldn't shut up about her during his many misadventures with Arya even though she had no interest in engaging him. Most poignant was the scene at the inn when he found out about Sansa's marriage to Tyrion and his deathbed confession, which I honestly think has been misinterpreted and misconstrued. He did not go to Sansa's room the night of the Battle of the Blackwater to rape her. He went there to offer her an escape and offer her his protection. One does not switch off protector mode and on to rapist mode. He reacted badly to what he perceived as rejection for a number of reasons--PTSD, exhaustion from battle, and extreme inebriation just to mention a few.

As far as not believing that an author like Martin could condone a romantic relationship between a 13-year-old girl and a 29-year-old man, how do you explain Dany/Drogo? GRRM literally said he considered their relationship to be a love story. And Drogo IS a violent rapist.

Err... he did put a knife on her throat that night. Nothing good ever comes out of such a relationship, no matter how much Sansa (who ought to go to an inexistent Westerosi psychiatrist )wants to fuck him.

[nirolo]

Wow you sure have a lot of free time on your hands...

No. I took the time to check the previous posts out of my respect for you as a fellow ASoIaF aficionado and on the off chance that I might be wrong. I guess my efforts and respect are wasted. (And of course I have the time. It’s the weekends, yaknow)

I said in the BOARD, not it this thread. Go on, do a search for Mrs Lannister (any one of the thousands of versions of that thread). There are plenty of others too. And at least one of the card-carrying TySan shippers of the board are in this thread even though they haven't mentioned the ship here.

I believe it when you say there are Tyrion/Sansa shippers out there. But this is what I don’t understand: If SanSans don’t like the idea of a Tyrion/Sansa ship, then why mention it in this thread before anyone else did? If you don’t like the piñata, then why be the first to bring it out? It sounds rather unnecessary. Was it an attempt to piss off TySan shippers? If so, then how does that help strengthen one’s argument for SanSan? Again, I hope this is not the reason why TySan (nice portmanteau, didn’t know it existed) was brought up, because it doesn’t do much to move the discussion forward.

[Angalin]

It's unclear to me why people are talking about Tyrion and Sansa in a thread about Sandor Clegane.

It is never clear to me why people think personal attacks on other boarders, usually left unnamed and often not participating in the thread, is acceptable. This alone is enough to get the thread closed.