What, exactly, is wrong with Lysa?

[imbenurnot]

Probably an advanced case of crush syndrome.

[Mad Monkey]

She's a woman who's had some horrible events happen in her life and she let the bitterness of those events eat away inside her for decades. Unfortunately that turned her into an extremely unpleasant person by the end.

Plus shes had a diabolical sociopath whispering in her ear for years and playing on her hopes which can't have helped.

Sweetrobin is spoiled, sure, but "diabolical sociopath"!?

[complexphoenix]

I don't think it's fair to compare Lysa to Samwell. Sam has sworn a vow to the Night's Watch and he's supposed to do nothing if anything happens to his family. Lysa, on the other hand, is expected to help and support her family if they get into trouble.

If Lysa had called her banners when Robb did and sent the power of the Vale to rescue the Riverlands, the Battle of the Green Fork would have consisted of Tywin getting crushed between Roose and Royce. Tywin, Kevan, and Tyrion would have all been captured and the war would have been over immediately. The North-Riverlands-Vale alliance would have been reaffirmed in victory, making them all that much more respected and feared, making them all safer going forward. And Lysa wouldn't have had to worry about the Mountain Clans, either.

But instead Lysa sat and did nothing, and ended up with no allies.

[Greywind84]

Sweetrobin is spoiled, sure, but "diabolical sociopath"!?

Oh come on, that whole 'shaking' thing is clearly a work. Devious little sod.

[tormund's beard]

well she is death, thats kind of wrong as opossed to be alive at least. then she had some kind of stalker-crush going on, made worse by the fact that little finger played to his advantage.

[Er Rn]

Doesn't change the fact that, even if some people had worse fate than her, there is a plausible explanation for her being kinda nuts and paranoid. She is not as hard as Catelyn, but I think she would've been a different person (meaning, less crazy) if she had less misfortunes happen to her.

Maybe, maybe not. As ache said, she chose to go to LF after he had just fought a duel to win her sister's hand, knowing he was obsessed with Cat. And she had to know the potential consequences of her actions. This seems like pretty unbalanced behavior.

And I don't fault her for being kinda nuts and paranoid, but destabilizing a country and actively participating in the destruction of your family seems a bit extreme.

[Jasta11]

Better question, what isn't wrong with her...

She already falls on hard times as a teenager, falling in love and having an unwanted abortion. Used goods, following Westerosi values. So she's shipped off to an old man that, while kind, is not warm, and as Catelyn puts it she needed warmth above all. Five (5!) miscarriages. A baby that ended up being sickly. And, of course, Littlefinger. No wonder she ended up a bit nuts.

That being said, it surely doesn't excuse her bahavior, that being completely and utterly letting her family down and letting herself be manipulated by a complete sociopath. Being stupid with Tyrion deprived the Starks of a valuable hostage. And of course, holding off the knights of the Vale tipped the balance in the war. With all those experienced soldiers, the Stark-Tully alliance had a much, much better chance of success, and the Red Wedding pretty much wouldn't have happened, probably.

[Lord Damian]

Given what we know of her father, Hoster Tulley seemed like a pretty tough guy, too tough. Lysa though was a desireable young lady who sullied herself with Littlefinger, who was a nobody. Then, the war happened and alliances were needed. On paper, it looked like a good match, a head of a major house but John Arryn was approx 60 years old at the time and Lysa was approx 16 so that is worse than Celine Dion. Not compatable. Then, hypocrit Hoster never makes his son and heir marry, he probably had a hope for Robb to get the Riverlands too as he was the one of his heirs that always showed promise.

[Lord Damian]

Lysa Tully reminds me of Margarette Baufort from The White Queen, played by actress Amanda Hale. Bat shit crazy. I sure hope Sweet Robin is not sitting the Iron Throne in the end. That would suck even worse than watching Henry Tudor win Bosworth.

[Wise Fool]

She probably has a hoster of different mental conditions.

[ARYa_Nym]

As for Cat being stronger I would say she was just lucky to not have to go through the same thing. Cat was the prized child. LF wanted her. She got a young husband who she came to love. It was mutual and they spent years together. She was able to have several children. There are no miscarriages or abortions we know about. Lysa didn't get those things so yeah she was going to be more fragile. She hung onto Robin because that's the only one she had and she had already lost a few. Cat didn't lose any kids until later. Then after Robb she lost it.

[Sansa_Stark]

As for Cat being stronger I would say she was just lucky to not have to go through the same thing. Cat was the prized child. LF wanted her. She got a young husband who she came to love. It was mutual and they spent years together. She was able to have several children. There are no miscarriages or abortions we know about. Lysa didn't get those things so yeah she was going to be more fragile. She hung onto Robin because that's the only one she had and she had already lost a few. Cat didn't lose any kids until later. Then after Robb she lost it.

I believe Cat was the braver of the two. My memory is a bit shaky, but when they were young, I believe they used to ride through a certain part of the riverlands together and got lost. Lysa started to break down and start crying while Cat was a bit more calm about. I don't remember all the details though.

[ARYa_Nym]

I believe Cat was the braver of the two. My memory is a bit shaky, but when they were young, I believe they used to ride through a certain part of the riverlands together and got lost. Lysa started to break down and start crying while Cat was a bit more calm about. I don't remember all the details though.

Lysa was timid or shy according to Jamie but I don't think Cat was mentally stronger just because she took longer to go insane.Her life was good. Lysa's was not. Lysa had years of constantly dealing with the type of turmoil Cat only had to deal with towards the end of her life.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Lysa Tully reminds me of Margarette Baufort from The White Queen, played by actress Amanda Hale. Bat shit crazy. I sure hope Sweet Robin is not sitting the Iron Throne in the end. That would suck even worse than watching Henry Tudor win Bosworth.

The real Margaret Beaufort was not "batshit crazy." She was a very pious woman who was protective of her son who was the heir to the Lancastrian claim to the English throne and thus in very real peril for his life right up until he fought Richard III at Bosworth. And seeing as Beaufort was the political rival of the Yorkist Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville (the eponymous White Queen), I'd expect anything from their point of view to paint her in a bad light. I've actually read both The White Queen (about Woodville) and The Red Queen (about Beaufort), and shockingly each party looks pretty bad from the other's point of view. The novels (and the series) are historical fiction and a fuck ton of it is incorrect and speculative.

Sorry to get off-topic, but seriously.

[Ours if the Fury]

She is a frootloop

[EstEst]

Lysa was unbalanced from the start. She goes to the bed of a drunk wounded man who fought for the hand of her sister and she sleeps with him while LF whispers Cats name I mean isn't it obvius he loves Cat not Lysa.Her father does what any other noble lord would do he terminates the pregnancy but I think Hoster Tully used overdose in the abortion medicine so that causes some damage to her and she suffers more.

Lysa was weak minded as far as I understand she was always in Cats shadow. Lysas life got srewed up by her one mistake loving LF. She was very easily manipulated she is actually insane. But comparing her to Uncat I have to say even Uncat sounds more sane then Lysa.

<snip>

There weren't many suitable choices in the matter left to him.

And stop making his decision seem outrageously cruel.

People in their position weren't free pf expectations of duty and responsibility.

Part of the privilege of being waited on and living in that 1% was making alliances that benefit your house.

You want the freedom of choosing your spouse, become a peasant.

Whatever trauma she experienced pales in comparison to many other characters, who didn't become sociopathic, obsessive bitches who murdered their husbands and did nothing while their family's seat get stolen and their family slaughtered.

I agree with all these ideas. More than a half of nobility have to marry out by their parents' orders, men and women alike, so it's not a sexist approach. All of them have to live "away from anyone they'd ever known or cared about", and are "forced to have sex to have heirs". That's a custom in that world. Of a dozen families shown to us, only Lysa reached the point when we all have doubts in her sanity.

I don't want to say that the inflicted abortion was normal, but the marriage to an old man was normal, especially provided that she, by her own hands, cut off Hoster supply of possible grooms.

No, I think she became fixed on some idea so much that something got amiss from the start, long before that abortion. Abortion was the consequence of her obsession with LF, and with Catelyn's superiority. Poor soul, yes, but she was too weak and unwilling to cope with that obsession, and that weakness was the reason of all her future troubles (including unhappy marriage).

Was that initial obsession truly insane? I don't know, I'm not an expert. If any, in the end her behavior resembled paranoid fixation on one idea (that everybody wants to steal her Petyr).

[Sansa_Stark]

Lysa was timid or shy according to Jamie but I don't think Cat was mentally stronger just because she took longer to go insane.Her life was good. Lysa's was not. Lysa had years of constantly dealing with the type of turmoil Cat only had to deal with towards the end of her life.

No.

This is even before Lysa had stress from her horrible marriage and betrayal from her father.

"Last night I dreamed of that time Lysa and I got lost while riding back from Seagard. Do you remember? That strange fog came up and we fell behind the rest of the party. Everything was grey, and I could not see a foot past the nose of my horse. We lost the road. The branches of the trees were like long skinny arms reaching out to grab us as we passed. Lysa started to cry and when I shouted the fog seemed to swallow the snow. But Petyr knew where we were, and he rode back and found us."

Cat has been made of tougher stuff than Lysa since youth apparently.

[David Selig]

But Robb Stark had no choice in which he was promised to. I guess he could've chosen which Frey girl to Wed, but Cat made the decision for Robb without consulting with him.

No. Robb was asked whether he accepts the deal and he said yes.

[Ted Chang]

What happened to Lysa? Life happened to her.

[Tywin Manderly]

Doesn't change the fact that, even if some people had worse fate than her, there is a plausible explanation for her being kinda nuts and paranoid. She is not as hard as Catelyn, but I think she would've been a different person (meaning, less crazy) if she had less misfortunes happen to her.

This! :agree:

Sweetrobin is spoiled, sure, but "diabolical sociopath"!?

It is Littlefinger who is being referred to.