Lancel and Sansa Marriage

[MotherAnduin]

 

He only began his descent into madness, not completed. It wasn't until Jaime confronted him in aFfC that he was well and truly headed that way. He was willing enough to marry Gatehouse Ami before then.

But unwilling to bed her which is what we are aiming at here.

The man was fasting himself to the point that he could see the future...

[Danelle]

What do you think will happen if Sansa married Lancel instead of Tyrion? In this scenario, Tyrion will wed a frey girl and Kevan agreed to this marriage.

I think that it depends on the timing.

Lancel changed a lot after Blackwater.

I think that he is a rather intriguing character, even though his is not as important as the rest of his notorious family.

I believe that he has a strange type of Oedipus complex.

In Lancel's case, he wants to replace Jaime, who is the older cousin, and make love to his cousin, Cersei.

I don't think that marriage between cousins was forbidden in Westeros. For example, Tywin, Lancel's uncle, married his cousin Joanna. Lancel not only wanted to replace Jaime, but he also aspired to become like Tywin.

In GOT he doesn't seem to be particularly interesting, he is just another Lannister, and he is still better than Joffrey or Jaime, but in COK , Lancel can be as dangerous as his cousins.

Sansa had always thought Lancel Lannister comely and well spoken, but there was neither pity nor kindness in the look he gave her. "Using some vile sorcery, your brother fell upon Ser Stafford Lannister with an army of wargs, not three days ride from Lannisport. Thousands of good men were butchered as they slept, without the chance to lift sword. After the slaughter, the northmen feasted on the flesh of the slain."

By the time this incident took place, Sansa had already discovered how cruel the Lannisters were. She also knew that the KG knights, apart from Sandor, would abuse if Joffrey wanted them to do it. Still, even then, Lancel did not appear to be as dangerous.

Lancel has no problem to follow Joffrey's orders and ignore his insane commands. He doesn't even seem to care about the extent of his King's cruelty. This is a contrast to Kevan's reaction in SOS

“And I want Robb Stark’s head too. Write to Lord Frey and tell him. The king commands. I’m going to have it served to Sansa at my wedding feast.”

“Sire,” Ser Kevan said, in a shocked voice, “the lady is now your aunt by marriage.”

“A jest.” Cersei smiled. “Joff did not mean it.”

While the rest of the Lannisters are wary of Joffrey's sadistic behaviour and they realise that it would be difficult to control him, Lancel appears not only to approove of Sansa's abuse but he actively participates by assuming the role of her accuser.

Lancel before Blackwater simply tries to imitate Tywin and Jaime, he acts in a way that he thinks that is similar tot heir actions.

During Blackwater, everything changed.

Lancel, tried to reson with Cersei and of course he failed.

"Get out of my way." Cersei slammed her open palm into his wound. Ser Lancel cried out in pain and almost fainted as the queen swept from the room.

Sansa went to Ser Lancel and knelt beside him. His wound was bleeding afresh where the queen had struck him. "Madness," he gasped. "Gods, the Imp was right, was right . . . "

"Help him," Sansa commanded two of the serving men. One just looked at her and ran, flagon and all. Other servants were leaving the hall as well, but she could not help that. Together, Sansa and the serving man got the wounded knight back on his feet. "Take him to Maester Frenken." Lancel was one of them, yet somehow she still could not bring herself to wish him dead. I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says. I should be killing him, not helping him.

It should be noted that Sansa appears to be more calm and reasonable than Lancel, even during a battle. Both Sansa and Lancel were enticed by Cersei and both of them paid a bitter price for that.

Sansa managed to survive, Lancel did not.

His cousin Ser Lancel had been brought down by Ser Kevan, the first time he’d left his sickbed since the battle. He looks ghastly. Lancel’s hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed.

After Blackwater Lancel is physically and mentally destroyed.

If Lancel had married Sansa, before Blackwater, I think that he would have treated her the same way that he expected Tywin and Jaime would treat her.

Lancel shuddered. "Seven save me, but I wanted to be you."Jaime had to laugh. "Better me than Blessed Baelor.

If Lancel thought that Jaime would abuse Sansa, he would abuse her as well.

On the other hand, if their wedding had took place after Blackwater, then Lancel would act like his new idol, Baelor the Blessed. Most likely he would avoid Sansa and spent his days in a sept.

Lancel has a very weak personality and allows others to impose their beliefs on him.

Even if he had married Sansa, after Blackwater he would still seek solace in the Seven.

[Iona]

How much of a bitch would Cercei have been in her jealousy if her boytoy Lancel was married and doing Sansa? Just asking! :D

[TalalOfDorne]

But no near rapes and Lancel will actually care about her feelings, so she comes out ahead.

Besides, it is not like she wanted Tyrion...

Well yes, she didnt want Tyrion. Thats plain enough to see. However, she also seemed even less keen about Lancel, who probably would have "done his duty".

[Thendel]

As Kevan noted, Lancel was not physically capable of consummating the marriage at the time. We don't see him in a functioning condition until Tywin's funeral, at which point his devotion to the Faith is taking speed. For that reason, I don't see him as being willing to do "his duty" unless severely pressured. For her part, Sansa would have sympathized with his broken soul, but I doubt she'd be happier with him than she was with Tyrion.

Speaking of Tyrion, he'd most likely have married Gatehouse Amy, which would have been an interesting situation, to say the least. Given Amy's less than innocent nature and older age, consummation would likely have happened, but I doubt the two would have liked each other very much: Tyrion's jealousy would quickly come to clash with Amy's nymphomanic antics, resulting in a death threat now and then to whomever caught Amy's eye.

[complexphoenix]

Sansa would have a much easier time accepting Lancel as a husband, because he's a handsome young knight instead of an ugly dwarf. He's still a Lannister, but he seems to be easily influenced, so she could learn to dominate him.

[Melpomene]

I can see the marriage starting off as fairly decent, if there was some hint of effort...they are close in age, both went through a high level of naivety, both were used as pawns, both essentially screwed over by Cersei (In Lancel's case quite litterally), both nice looking, both were both going through hard experiences and witnessing changing circumstances in family, both had father's in very prominent positions - Ned was Hand of the King, Kevan was offered to be Hand and later became Regent. Both had a lot of siblings, Sansa was one of five and the oldest girl, Lancel was one of four and the oldest boy. Sansa was a captive under his family, Lancel had a siblings who were captives under her family, Robb Stark. Sansa believed her brother's were killed, Lancel had his younger brother killed.

I guess it would altogether depend on whether they would open up to each other or not. If they did, they would at least have been friends. If they would just do so, and gradually gotten to know/understand/empthasize each other's situations, they might have been reasonably close or at least respectful of one another. Imagine the possibilities! Perhaps he would have ended up less radicalized, even if traumatized.

If not, his personal path would have been the same. He would have followed his newfound route entirely and bail on Sansa in the end. Or at least, wouldn't have been kind to her from the start.

Knowing our luck, both or one of them wouldn't have tried to patiently comprehend one another, and the latter event would likely be the one happen over the former option.

At the end of the day though, it probably wouldn't matter. Sansa would have lost both husbands just the same - Tyrion took off as a wanted refugee and she was swiped away by LF, almost similar to the idea of Lancel taking off in complete renouncement and Sansa still being swept away by LF.

[Trigger Warning]

Sansa would have a much easier time accepting Lancel as a husband, because he's a handsome young knight instead of an ugly dwarf. He's still a Lannister, but he seems to be easily influenced, so she could learn to dominate him.

He isn't handsome post Blackwater.

[Iona]

He isn't handsome post Blackwater.

Aww, don't be cruel, he's been through a lot and Sansa could have nursed him back to health and hunkiness. Tyrion on the other hand, even in the songs no fair maid has ever been able to make a dwarf grow two feet or restore him his nose.

[Trigger Warning]

Aww, don't be cruel, he's been through a lot and Sansa could have nursed him back to health and hunkiness. Tyrion on the other hand, even in the songs no fair maid has ever been able to make a dwarf grow two feet or restore him his nose.

But that might stop Lancel reaching his true destiny, which is of course to turn into Skeletor and become the primary antagonist of the series.

Myaaaaaaah

[Iona]

But that might stop Lancel reaching his true destiny, which is of course to turn into Skeletor and become the primary antagonist of the series.

Myaaaaaaah

Oh, Lancel will be the Great Other? :eek:

[Trigger Warning]

Oh, Lancel will be the Great Other? :eek:

Jon will be resurrected as a steroid freak blonde man.

It all fits.

[Iona]

Jon will be resurrected as a steroid freak blonde man.

It all fits.

With Ghost turning into a green tiger... I need to sleep on that.

[Le Cygne]

One, it wouldn't have been dramatic enough, the narrative purpose of the marriage was to build on the Starks vs. Lannisters conflict. Tyrion breaking his vow to return Sansa, Catelyn thinking he's faithless and Sansa would be forced to bear his children, Robb fearing that they'd murder Sansa after producing heirs, Sansa desperate to escape after the horror of the wedding night, ... All that drama would have been watered down if she'd married Lancel.

Two, it never would have happened. Lancel marrying Sansa was never on the table, it was all a game, Tyrion knew it:

“The man who weds Sansa Stark can claim Winterfell in her name,” his uncle Kevan put in. “Had that not occurred to you?”

“If you will not have the girl, we shall give her to one of your cousins,” said his father. “Kevan, is Lancel strong enough to wed, do you think?”

Ser Kevan hesitated. “If we bring the girl to his bedside, he could say the words … but to consummate, no … I would suggest one of the twins, but the Starks hold them both at Riverrun. They have Genna’s boy Tion as well, else he might serve.”

Tyrion let them have their byplay; it was all for his benefit, he knew.

[Newstar]

Two, it never would have happened. Lancel marrying Sansa was never on the table, it was all a game, Tyrion knew it

And yet he provides it to Sansa as a seemingly legitimate option minutes before the wedding. Did he honestly believe when he made that offer that he'd be able to pull off a last-minute groom swap, or was it just pseudo-honourable self-serving bullshit so Tyrion can feel better about going along with the wedding?

[jarl the climber]

He isn't handsome post Blackwater.

My nickname for him is Lancealittle.

[Pod The Impaler]

If Lancel had married Sansa, before Blackwater, I think that he would have treated her the same way that he expected Tywin and Jaime would treat her.

If Lancel thought that Jaime would abuse Sansa, he would abuse her as well.

On the other hand, if their wedding had took place after Blackwater, then Lancel would act like his new idol, Baelor the Blessed. Most likely he would avoid Sansa and spent his days in a sept.

Lancel has a very weak personality and allows others to impose their beliefs on him.

Even if he had married Sansa, after Blackwater he would still seek solace in the Seven.

I think the difference here, bwtween Lancel and Tyrion, is that Lancel was weaker.

Lancel would have bedded Sansa (forcibly) if all that pressure had been exerted on him by Tywin.

Or else, he would have stood by and let Joffrey rape her, without making it clear he would be protecting her.

Tyrion - for all his faults - resisted these cruelties by standing up to Tywin and Joffrey, at his own peril. Lancel was never strong enough to do that. Sansa would be forcibly bedded at some point, and Lancel would go take refuge in a sept and scourge himself over it.

[Tony Stark of Winterfell]

tywin would never allow the son of his younger brother to become the lord regent of winterfell when he has an unmarried son of his own who could do the same thing.

[jarl the climber]

tywin would never allow the son of his younger brother to become the lord regent of winterfell when he has an unmarried son of his own who could do the same thing.

Actually I do not think that either Tyrion or Lancel would have been suited to rule Winterfell. I think Tywin just wanted them to knock her up with a legitimate heir, I'm not sure how the actual regency would have worked out if it came down to it. Kevan would have been the best choice in the actual family and in that sense the Lancel marriage would have made much more sense if he was actually able to.

[Minsc]

Or else, he would have stood by and let Joffrey rape her, without making it clear he would be protecting her.

I don't think Kevan (and in turn Tywin) would allow Joffrey to rape his son's bride, in how that would be a sign of ultimate lack of respect by Joffrey towards Kevan's family and in turn the Lannisters. Thus, even if Lancel wouldn't have been strong enough to fight it they would have stopped it from occurring.

Not to mention, how Tywin would want to insure it doesn't occur until the Maergaery/Joffrey Wedding in how it would look terrible if the king was going around raping Highborn girls which could be highly off putting for the Tyrells.