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Small questions v. 10085


415 replies to this topic

#1 Jon Weirgaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:53 AM

If I got it right, this is the unanswered bit from v. 10084:

 

 

There's a "Follow this topic" button on the top right, once it's been clicked it logically says "Unfollow this topic". That's all I get out of it. To actually be shown updates in this thread I need to write an entry (which by now I have done).

 

re Mance.

 

Despite Jon's early childhood memory remembering Mance as a young Night's Watch man I insist he is "old", at least in his thirties.

 

(minimum 12 to leave the wall with other rangers) plus another 12 since the memory makes only 24. But still he has learned mastery in playing the harp and every song known in the seven kingdoms and beyond the wall will take a lot of time for travelling and practice.

 

Also his hair is greying, (the first time we see him, his hair is all grey,) the second time, his brown hair is greying. So in middle ages' terms, he is old.

I don't have the books with me (except SoS HC) but iirc, at Ramsay's wedding isn't MAnce playing and Theon thinks he's not that great and thinks of him as a pander...does he have a different instrument, or is there some other reason for this?

 

 



#2 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:57 AM

@rmholt, who said:

 

 

You don't need a Maester to care for and send ravens from the field. See: Sam and the big ranging. Who would receive the ravens if the Maester sends them home?

 

Samwell went on the ranging because Aemon  was too old. Had Aemon been of an age and health to go on a ranging, he would have been the one to go.

 

Also from @rmholt

 

 

ROBERT was injured. Why Ned beat him to KL. Barristan was injured too. Where does it say they were treated by a Maester in the field? Does it make sense the Maester would treat Selmy instead of Robert? 

From a Game of Thrones:

 

“Mercy is never a mistake, Lord Renly,” Ned replied. “On the Trident, Ser Barristan here cut down a dozen good men, Robert’s friends and mine. When they brought him to us, grievously wounded and near death, Roose Bolton urged us to cut his throat, but your brother said, ‘I will not kill a man for loyalty, nor for fighting well,’ and sent his own maester to tend Ser Barristan’s wounds.” He gave the king a long cool look. “Would that man were here today.”

 

No one said the maester never helped Robert :) But Robert did send his own maester to Barristan to see to Barristans wounds.



#3 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:50 PM

If I look back I am lost, Dany told herself the next morning as she entered Astapor through the harbor gates. 

Daenerys III, Storm

Is this the first time Daenerys thinks, "If I look bsk I am lost?"

#4 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

Daenerys III, Storm

Is this the first time Daenerys thinks, "If I look bsk I am lost?"

No, she thinks it all the way back in Game:

 

 

“No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. “That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price.”

Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. “The price was paid,” Dany said. “The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid.” She rose from her cushions. “Where is Khal Drogo? Show him to me, godswife, maegi, bloodmage, whatever you are. Show me Khal Drogo. Show me what I bought with my son’s life.”

Chapter 68



#5 Jon Weirgaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:23 PM

:agree:

 

If I look back I am lost:

AGoT 68 Daenerys IX
AGoT 72 Daenerys X
ASoS 27 Daenerys III
ADwD 36 Daenerys VI
ADwD 71 Daenerys X

 

:drool:

 

 

If I look back, I am lost:

ADwD 11 Daenerys II
ADwD 50 Daenerys VIII

 

:cheers:



#6 Jon Weirgaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:40 PM

Originally by @Russellstiltskin:

I don't have the books with me (except SoS HC) but iirc, at Ramsay's wedding isn't MAnce playing and Theon thinks he's not that great and thinks of him as a pander...does he have a different instrument, or is there some other reason for this?

 

I don't think Theon is complaining about Abel's music or singing, it is just that Lord Wyman Manderly has brought professional musicians from the town, while Abel's band is made up of (wildling amazone warrior) washerwomen hacking on musical instruments.
 

Abel was plucking at his lute and singing "Fair Maids of Summer." He calls himself a bard. In truth he' s more a pander. Lord Manderly had brought musicians from White Harbor, but none were singers, so when Abel turned up at the gates with a lute and six women, he had been made welcome. "Two sisters, two daughters, one wife, and my old mother,"the singer claimed, though not one looked like him. "Some dance, some sing, one plays the pipe and one the drums. Good washerwomen too."

 

Bard or pander, Abel's voice was passable, his playing fair. Here amongst the ruins, that was as much as anyone might expect.

ADwD 37 The Prince of Winterfell

 

Sorry, took me a while to dig it up.


Edited by Jon Weirgaryen, 13 July 2014 - 01:40 PM.


#7 rmholt

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

@rmholt, who said:
 
Samwell went on the ranging because Aemon  was too old. Had Aemon been of an age and health to go on a ranging, he would have been the one to go.
 
Also from @rmholt
From a Game of Thrones:
 
No one said the maester never helped Robert :) But Robert did send his own maester to Barristan to see to Barristans wounds.

All I'm saying is there are no instances of Maesters going out into the field. Re: Sam/Aemon - there was no statement that Aemon should go. If so, Clydas would have been the choice. Sam carried the ravens to send, not receive. Someone else had the first aid kit which was lost on the Fist.

There are many instances of Maesters traveling between castles/houses. The Red Keep was lousy with them. So Robert wins the throne, gets his Maester relocated. Barristan isn't treated except basic aid in the field by the Maester and neither is Robert. They are brought to KL, treated, Selmy has been living there as KG. Robert now has his Maester there. Doctors don't go to accident sites or war front lines and give definitive treatment.

There just aren't instances if this happening and you keep saying there could be. Well I can't argue with your fanfic.

BTW I find your attribution of quotes misleading at best.

Edited by rmholt, 13 July 2014 - 03:48 PM.


#8 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:06 PM

All I'm saying is there are no instances of Maesters going out into the field. Re: Sam/Aemon - there was no statement that Aemon should go. If so, Clydas would have been the choice. Sam carried the ravens to send, not receive. Someone else had the first aid kit which was lost on the Fist.

There are many instances of Maesters traveling between castles/houses. The Red Keep was lousy with them. So Robert wins the throne, gets his Maester relocated. Barristan isn't treated except basic aid in the field by the Maester and neither is Robert. They are brought to KL, treated, Selmy has been living there as KG. Robert now has his Maester there. Doctors don't go to accident sites or war front lines and give definitive treatment.

There just aren't instances if this happening and you keep saying there could be. Well I can't argue with your fanfic.

BTW I find your attribution of quotes misleading at best.

How is quoting  a passage from the book in it's complete form misleading?

 

As to the issue with Sam, the Jon in his chapter had the following thought:

 

Maester Aemon was blind and far too frail to ride with them, so his steward must go in his place.

 

That suggests that if Aemon had been of a right age and health, he would have gone himself.

 

 

As to the Robert/Barristan stuff: never said that Barristans wounds were tended to in the field. I quoted the passage Lost Melnibonean was thinking of.


Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 13 July 2014 - 04:10 PM.


#9 rmholt

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

How is quoting  a passage from the book in it's complete form misleading?


Misattributing my quotes. Thus endeth the trolldom

#10 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:20 PM

 

Misattributing my quotes. Thus endeth the trolldom

I'm assuming there are 2 problems:

 

1) the quote about Samwell.. I guess I misunderstood what you were saying in your original post. That is no reason to start calling me misleading. Honest mistake, dude.

 

2) Lost Melnibonean asked if Robert had Barristan looked after by his own maester, at the battle of the trident. You respond by asking " Does it make sense the Maester would treat Selmy instead of Robert?" I respond by showing you that Robert did in fact send his own maester to Barristan.. But I also said that it was nowhere stated that Robert hadn't been treated himself first.. Nor was I the one to claim that this happened at the actual battlefield.


Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 13 July 2014 - 04:21 PM.


#11 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

All I'm saying is there are no instances of Maesters going out into the field. Re: Sam/Aemon - there was no statement that Aemon should go. If so, Clydas would have been the choice. Sam carried the ravens to send, not receive. Someone else had the first aid kit which was lost on the Fist.

There are many instances of Maesters traveling between castles/houses. The Red Keep was lousy with them. So Robert wins the throne, gets his Maester relocated. Barristan isn't treated except basic aid in the field by the Maester and neither is Robert. They are brought to KL, treated, Selmy has been living there as KG. Robert now has his Maester there. Doctors don't go to accident sites or war front lines and give definitive treatment.

There just aren't instances if this happening and you keep saying there could be. Well I can't argue with your fanfic.

BTW I find your attribution of quotes misleading at best.

How do you know how much treatment Barristan received in the field? And what difference does it make to the actual point? Robert's maester was with Robert's army at the Battle of the Trident. The maester was in the field.

#12 rmholt

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 07:40 PM

That doesn't make any sense to me.

#13 RumHam

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:23 PM

Is it ever indicated that the Giants got involved in the war between the Children and the First Men?



#14 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:45 PM

Is it ever indicated that the Giants got involved in the war between the Children and the First Men?

I don't recall anything like that being mentioned.

Is there an SSM where the George says the North were generally loyalist after Torrhen knelt?

#15 Lord Spark of House Spark

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:43 AM

Re Maesters in the field.

Spoiler


#16 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:45 AM

Re Maesters in the field.

Spoiler

Spoiler


Re: Robert and Barristan - I really don't understand the problem there. As Rhaenys has showed, Robert's maesters did treat Barristan and so must have been in the field. From the way Barristan was injured, I doubt he would have survived long without treatment (Unless I am confusing his injuries with someone elses)

RumHam; I don't recall any mention of the Children and Giants fighting the First Men together. Best bets would probably be the Westerlands reading, one of Old Nan's stories or Bran III aDwD. Like I.say, I dont remember anything though. I do seem to remember something along the lines of the Children and Giants being cousins and one time foes though, but could be misremembering there. I guess we would know for certain in the World Book... oh, which reminds me, you could also.l check that fairly old excerpt with the bit about Giants and the Children of the Forest. Could be something there. Sorry I cant be of more help

#17 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:50 AM

Re: Robert and Barristan - I really don't understand the problem there. As Rhaenys has showed, Robert's maesters did treat Barristan and so must have been in the field. From the way Barristan was injured, I doubt he would have survived long without treatment (Unless I am confusing his injuries with someone elses)

Barristan was "near death", so medical help was necessary as soon as possible, I'd say. There is nothig that suggests they all first travelled to KL.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 14 July 2014 - 02:50 AM.


#18 Jon Weirgaryen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:30 AM

Barristan was "near death", so medical help was necessary as soon as possible, I'd say. There is nothig that suggests they all first travelled to KL.

 

Where's the "KL" mention coming from? At the time of the Battle of the Trident, KL was still the power centre of the enemy, and there probably was no hint yet that it would not not remain that way for a longish time.


Edited by Jon Weirgaryen, 14 July 2014 - 03:32 AM.


#19 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:32 AM

 
Where's the "KL" mention coming from? At the time of the Battle of the Trident, KL was still the power center of the enemy, and there probably was no hint yet that it would not not remain that way for a longish time.

Here is it coming from:

There are many instances of Maesters traveling between castles/houses. The Red Keep was lousy with them. So Robert wins the throne, gets his Maester relocated. Barristan isn't treated except basic aid in the field by the Maester and neither is Robert. They are brought to KL, treated, Selmy has been living there as KG. Robert now has his Maester there. Doctors don't go to accident sites or war front lines and give definitive treatment.


So like I said, there is nothing that suggests that they travelled to KL first. With Barristan near dead on the Trident, the medical aid would have been given as soon as was possible.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 14 July 2014 - 03:34 AM.


#20 aryagonnakill#2

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:53 AM




RumHam; I don't recall any mention of the Children and Giants fighting the First Men together. Best bets would probably be the Westerlands reading, one of Old Nan's stories or Bran III aDwD. Like I.say, I dont remember anything though. I do seem to remember something along the lines of the Children and Giants being cousins and one time foes though, but could be misremembering there. I guess we would know for certain in the World Book... oh, which reminds me, you could also.l check that fairly old excerpt with the bit about Giants and the Children of the Forest. Could be something there. Sorry I cant be of more help

Leaf says they were their brothers and their bane.