snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Terrible tragedy, and I'm sure both sides will point the finger at the other. Need more concrete information before we can go placing blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It's really horrible to think that some kind of terrible failure on the aircraft would be a good news story. A tragedy indeed, however it happened. 285 passengers and 15 crew members, RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It was mistake for sure, but it is said the separatists do not posses missles capable of shooting such plane, so it must have been Russian or Ukrainian army... The Seperatists have, according to reports, captured SAM platforms fully capable of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Again hard to know what is what over there. Always conflicting stories.Ukraine defence minister previously said that the rebels did not have the capability to shoot down their Antonov-26 and put the blame for the one on the Russians. The rebels say that they did. Now both sides change their stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why are commercial airliners being vectored anywhere close to a combat zone where SAMs are in use? That seems to be one of the big questions. Those are not friendly skies - if a military plane can be shot down, a civilian one can be. Altitude and the hope someone is reading your transponder should not be one's only protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Again hard to know what is what over there. Always conflicting stories.Perhaps, but since the seperatists don't seem to have much in the way of an airforce it seems like the Ukrainian military don't seem to have much motivation to be launching missiles at aircraft. Presumably especially not aircraft flying west to east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Perhaps, but since the seperatists don't seem to have much in the way of an airforce it seems like the Ukrainian military don't seem to have much motivation to be launching missiles at aircraft. Presumably especially not aircraft flying west to east. *Insert conspiracy theory!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Blame Russia. This is their proxy war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Again hard to know what is what over there. Always conflicting stories. Dunno, can you envision a scenario in which anyone blames the Ukrainian government for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why do you need a conspiracy theory? The rebels have been shooting planes down for ages. They shot one down at almost the exact same time as this happened. The Ukrainians generally only say the rebels couldn't do it to imply that the Russians are behind it, either via direct means or via supplying the rebels the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 *Insert conspiracy theory!!!!! imho it makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Dunno, can you envision a scenario in which anyone blames the Ukrainian government for this?Yes. The Russians and the rebels will. Conspiracy theorists will say that Ukraine did this in order to put the blame on the Russians so that the rest of the world will stop dithering and throw their weight fully behind them.Already seen some of this on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 ... can you envision a scenario in which anyone blames the Ukrainian government for this? Yes, it is definitely possible for someone to believe that: they shot it down by mistake, or they shot it down on purpose, or led it into a dangerous area on purpose, or had military planes shadowing civilian ones using them as missile decoys or even as bait. Of course a pro-Maidan person would never believe such a thing. A pro-Russia person would easily believe such things. And for uninvolved observers, there remains the eerie possibility, because this is a war and in war all sorts of devious ploys and dirty tactics take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flrtwtrble Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines is definitely having a bad year. Horrible that all those lives were lost over a conflict they had nothing to do with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Reading Anton Gerashchenko's translated Facebook page is kinda funny due to the bad translation.Putin! You and your cronies can not escape international tribunal! This photo contrail left after launch missiles SAM "Buk." Made a few minutes after the rocket launch of three neighborhood Torez city from west to east. Thousands of people saw the launch and flight of the missile, which you kindly gave her the sponsored terrorists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennis of the Brown Shield Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://lifenews.ru/watch-live Russian news stream with filming from the crash site. Since it is Russian it's not exactly censored, so sensitive viewers probably shouldn't watch. Edit: Looks like they've censored the bodies now, though. They hadn't fifteen minutes ago, guess it got a bit too macabre even for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Good grief, my fb news feed now has a picture of the plane at the gate, taken by a passenger about to get on who posted the picture with the caption "If it disappears, this is what it looks like!" Talk about black humour gone really dark. Not to mention wrong. Holy s**t, that is one airline I'm never flying on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yeah, FB.The US had put out an advisory 8 weeks ago to avoid that airspace. Air Canada has been avoiding it for quite some time. One aviation lawyer on CBC said, "Bottom line is 'Good god, what were they doing in that airspace?' It makes absolutely no sense." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Ok, the pros are saying that since the wreckage is scattered in a 9 mile/15 km radius, that points to a catastrophic event like a missile or a bomb. If the plane simply had had an emergency event and plummeted to the ground, the debris would be more compact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 On Monday Ukraine was blaming Russia for shooting down one of their cargo planes because they said the rebels had nothing that could hit a plane flying at 21,000 ft. Link.Now they're hinting that the rebels can shoot down a plane at 33,000 ft. I guess we will have to wait and see what the US and NATO have to say after they investigate this a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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