Fragile Bird Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And BTW, they just re-instated the lockdown in Ottawa, and have asked all people to stay off the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Seems our security was pretty good. This was a tragic incident no doubt but now is the time to be calm and rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 FB,Any word on why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They never really lifted the lockdown, did they?Heavy police presence helped get people out of the downtown core, especially schools like Lisgar etc but it's always been 'stay away from here/get out of here' since it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well I see John Baird (Minister of Foreign Affairs and an absolutely obnoxious bulldog Republican clone) just tweeted that he has spoken to John Kerry: Just spoke to @JohnKerry. My message: "This is why we're with you. This only makes our resolve stronger." :ack: The comments back to John Baird are pretty vicious/cynical: https://twitter.com/HonJohnBaird/status/525064129741348864 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I was working across from the UN today, in the Dag Hammarskjöld Plaza, when six NYPD officers in full combat gear and automatic rifles appeared and stood across from us, with a seventh standing by the vehicle with a canine. We were wondering what was going on and if we should be worried. After about 30-40 minutes they got back in their vehicles and left. This was around 2:15 pm or so. Now I'm thinking it had to do with the shooting in Canada.Also, their appearance coincided with a news flash about the aforementioned shooting.Just thought I'd share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And hey! White House fence jumper about 20 minutes ago! Jesus Christ. In New York, security was stepped up around British and Canadian buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 HQ has told soldiers not to go out in uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And hey! White House fence jumper about 20 minutes ago! Jesus Christ. In New York, security was stepped up around British and Canadian buildings. There is speculation today's attack was inspired by Monday's attack. Maybe someone in Washington was inspired by the two attacks and the fact that guy got into the White House grounds the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Great story complimentary to the CBC coverage posted by Angalin elsewhere by TVNewser. As I watched via the network’s live stream in New York, I never heard a second of dramatic music, never saw a full-screen wipe with a catchy graphic like TERROR ON PARLIAMENT HILL, and never, ever heard Mansbridge or any of the CBC’s reporters dip even a toe into the waters of self-promotion. Compared that to the American cable news networks, where we’ve come to expect that every prime time newscast will begin with urgent music and BREAKING NEWS–complete with multiple on-screen reminders that this is BREAKING NEWS of great importance. CBC’s coverage was, well, very Canadian. And to the nervous system of an American observer of TV news, it was decidedly strange to experience. Mansbridge, in sharp contrast to the frenetic, breathless delivery we’ve come to expect from American news anchors in times of breaking news (including stories of far less significance than the attacks in Canada), was thoughtful, took his time, and seemed at times to pause, and to consider his words before speaking. Just. Imagine. That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Lucky. He mis-timed things. Half an hour, 40 minutes later the caucus meetings would have been over and the hallway would have been full, the entryway to Parliament would have been the scene of interviews, possibly with the Security Minister because of the anti-terrorism legislation that was going to be introduced. Imagine if he had gunned down the Security Minister. The guy who who spied on the Toronto 18 wanne-be terrorist group is on the CBC just now wondering how the hell a gunman got in after all of that went down, and then Greenpeace broke into the Parliament buildings and hung that banner from the roof. Why hasn't there been vastly improved security? Would security have been exactly the same then though? You seem awfully worried over an incident that, all told, went pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Shryke, you seem to be one of the few people in Canada who are not seriously concerned that a man could murder a soldier at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and then, carrying a rifle, could walk into the Parliament buildings. WFYB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I think he is just reasonably concerned about this being used as an excuse for massive escalation of the security apparatus by a conservative government. I'm scared about that happening here in Aus as a result of this shooting in Canada for that matter, despite the fact we already just had one... The murder of that solider is tragic and I'm sorry for his family and friends, but drastically amping up the security isn't always the right response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Shryke, you seem to be one of the few people in Canada who are not seriously concerned that a man could murder a soldier at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and then, carrying a rifle, could walk into the Parliament buildings. WFYB. I'm not at all concerned about the murder of Nathan Cirillo. It's tragic, yes, but there's literally nothing you can do to prevent it. That the guy could then run in to the parliament buildings is a strange thing to be concerned about considering the results of it were that nobody but him got killed. It only seems seriously concerning on the surface. The actual outcome has not been concerning at all. So yeah, maybe look in to some extra security I guess, but I'm not gonna get at all worked up or worried about any of it. For all your statements, the guy running into the parliament building didn't actually cause any huge harm. People were evacuated and protected and the guy was taken down with no other deaths and what appears to be minimal injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm with Shryke on this one. I would say its fairly easy to walk up to someone standing guard at a monument and shoot them because any sort of random, senseless violence is easy enough to perpetrate in public places. The anonymity of a crowded place makes us feel invisible, and in a way I suppose, invincible. The more centralized the setting the tighter the security, as we saw in Parliament. I'm worried about the consequences of this more than the act itself, and how Harper and his team will try and use it as a club to achieve their goals. I have so little concern for ISIS and terrorism in general. We do need a security apparatus in place but expanded powers are not called for. The single crazy farmer in Mayerthorpe who shot four RCMP is more indicative of the true dangers we face here, and not armies of Jihadists punching holes in the streets with bombs. But perspective and sense of proportion is not always the easiest thing to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm not at all concerned about the murder of Nathan Cirillo. It's tragic, yes, but there's literally nothing you can do to prevent it. That the guy could then run in to the parliament buildings is a strange thing to be concerned about considering the results of it were that nobody but him got killed. It only seems seriously concerning on the surface. The actual outcome has not been concerning at all. So yeah, maybe look in to some extra security I guess, but I'm not gonna get at all worked up or worried about any of it. For all your statements, the guy running into the parliament building didn't actually cause any huge harm. People were evacuated and protected and the guy was taken down with no other deaths and what appears to be minimal injuries. As I said above, Cpl. Cirillo was a sitting duck, standing with his head down and with an empty, symbolic gun. The exact same situation exists in the USA. I expect that from now on those guns will have bullets in them. And, as a sad sidenote, we never had a guard there before until those drunk assholes stopped by the memorial and pissed on it a couple of years ago. I'm just waiting to see a story about a reporter calling the guy who was convicted of mischief (or whatever he was convicted of, urinating in public?) to ask how he feels about his stupid stunt now. And no, I'm not calling for any huge increase in security, the entrance to the Parliament buildings already has security guards at every entrance. Armed security guards. How the hell does someone carrying a rifle waltz passed them? Were they on break? The Sergeant at Arms is being called a hero, he went right after Bibeau and likely shot him, together with the other security guys, but as has been repeatedly said on the news tonight, he'll also have to face the questions about how this happened. Your attitude is "no harm done, it all worked out", but yes, serious harm was done, first in the death of the corporal, and secondly in the fact things have seriously changed in this country now. It sickens me to think this may boost Harper's re-election chances. I think he is just reasonably concerned about this being used as an excuse for massive escalation of the security apparatus by a conservative government. I'm scared about that happening here in Aus as a result of this shooting in Canada for that matter, despite the fact we already just had one... The murder of that solider is tragic and I'm sorry for his family and friends, but drastically amping up the security isn't always the right response. As I said, security was already there. But today new legislation was going to be introduced that would give more powers to CSIS, the security agency here, and people are pretty leery about what is going to be suggested. The police could not arrest and charge the guy who ran down the 2 soldiers in Montreal on Monday, even though they knew he was "radicalized", because they had nothing to charge him with. Posting support for ISIL on your Facebook page is not a crime. I suspect we will see something like the right to detain persons who represent a security threat in jail for a length of time, anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. Without a trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 As I said, security was already there. But today new legislation was going to be introduced that would give more powers to CSIS, the security agency here, and people are pretty leery about what is going to be suggested. The police could not arrest and charge the guy who ran down the 2 soldiers in Montreal on Monday, even though they knew he was "radicalized", because they had nothing to charge him with. Posting support for ISIL on your Facebook page is not a crime. I suspect we will see something like the right to detain persons who represent a security threat in jail for a length of time, anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. Without a trial. The main thrust of the updated CSIS act, as I understand it, is that it gives CSIS officers more leeway in investigating individuals when they travel abroad. Which sounds reasonable. However, there are some aspects though, that I find truly frightening. Like denying the right for the defense to cross examine witnesses against you in your secret trial. Yup. Sounds like a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Here's an article touching on this:In his time as sergeant-at-arms, a role he took in 2005, he has also been vocal about finding the proper balance between security and public access, dignitaries and regular Canadians, holding to his promise, when he was took the post, that “there would be no wall built” around Canada’s Parliament. One account, told in a recent paper published in the Journal of Canadian Studies, describes how Mr. Vickers denied a request from high-ranking political staff who wanted to use the Hall of Honour for a press conference – a move that would have prevented a tour planned by students from Saskatchewan. “The kids from Moose Jaw,” he told the researcher, Ann Dance, “who saved their pennies all year must have the tour that they deserve.” He has also defended minority rights, particularly in 2011, when he ensured kirpans, the Sikh ceremonial dagger, would be allowed on the Hill. “As we go forward we should ask ourselves what Canada should be when it grows up,” he told The Globe at the time. “What are the core values of Canada, what makes up the soul and heart of our nation.” Ms. Dance, a postdoctoral fellow at Memorial University of Newfoundland, writes in the paper that Mr. Vickers has approached his job always considering the relationship that must be maintained between Canadians and the Parliament Buildings. “It’s fundamental to democracy that citizens have access to their place, their building. This is a House of Commons and it’s for the commoners.” Something to remember, Mr. Vickers might argue, especially on a grim day such as this, when an attack on that place risks closing doors that once stood open. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sergeant-at-arms-kevin-vickers-thrust-into-role-of-modern-day-hero/article21251215/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 As I said above, Cpl. Cirillo was a sitting duck, standing with his head down and with an empty, symbolic gun. The exact same situation exists in the USA. I expect that from now on those guns will have bullets in them. Why? This is exactly what we don't need and exactly why you are overreacting. Because in what way would bullets have saved his life? You have to accept that you can't stop alot of random violence. Not while maintaining any level of personal freedom. Look at the guy who killed an armed forces member a few days ago. All he needed was a car. And no, I'm not calling for any huge increase in security, the entrance to the Parliament buildings already has security guards at every entrance. Armed security guards. How the hell does someone carrying a rifle waltz passed them? Were they on break? The Sergeant at Arms is being called a hero, he went right after Bibeau and likely shot him, together with the other security guys, but as has been repeatedly said on the news tonight, he'll also have to face the questions about how this happened. Your attitude is "no harm done, it all worked out", but yes, serious harm was done, first in the death of the corporal, and secondly in the fact things have seriously changed in this country now. It sickens me to think this may boost Harper's re-election chances. No, the death of the corporal was not at all related to what you are complaining about wrt parliamentary security and you REALLY REALLY need to stop pretending it is. It's just complete bullshit. He was standing around outside, not in the parliament buildings. And your only other complaint here is about how "things have changed in this country now". Nothing has changed yet. You know what causes any change that happens? Your attitude. Exactly what you are doing in this thread is the cause for real concern. The idea that something must be done even when there's no reason to drastically change anything. Again, the armed gunman that ran into the parliament buildings didn't actually kill anyone there and was, in fact, quickly hunted down and killed. This seems like security is not that out of line for what is required. And, as the guy responsible for security seems to think and I agree, the parliament is not something the public should be locked out of under threat of armed guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 One account, told in a recent paper published in the Journal of Canadian Studies, describes how Mr. Vickers denied a request from high-ranking political staff who wanted to use the Hall of Honour for a press conference – a move that would have prevented a tour planned by students from Saskatchewan. “The kids from Moose Jaw,” he told the researcher, Ann Dance, “who saved their pennies all year must have the tour that they deserve.” Guy is a badass. Good on him. The day that they lock the public out of Parliament will be a sad, sad day for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.