Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 7 [show spoilers, book spoilers past OP]

[oierem]

I honestly don't think the writers care whether people might get 'spoiled' next season if they see Kit Harington filming. There's really very little they can do about it, so I don't see it as a factor for whether they include 'for the Watch' or anything after that.

I agree. Besides, Martin "killed" Jon at the end of one book, yet we all know he's coming back (without having spot the any actors!). But we don't know when or how or what will it mean.

[igrewupinKL]

But it seems really late for that, if it's going to be in episode 8. And we know they are going to have a meeting about it, so it makes sense for it to be HH.

Of course, I agree that it doesn't have to be Hardhome...it just seems to line up that way.

Well since they are casting Varamyr specifically (according to that leaked casting list) it could be that Varamyr leads the wildlings who will not bend the knee to Hardhome (or some place). This happens in the book as well, even though most of the wildlings pass through the wall towards the end of ADWD, some do not and refuse to bend the knee. Perhaps in the show they will end up at Hardhome.

Then the Varamyr prologue takes place with the skinchanging- showing that it is an abomination to skinchange into a human- and then in ep 10 when the Ides of Marsh happens perhaps that will be a good way to lead into Jon's warging into Ghost (if that happens). So far we've only seen Bran and Orell skinchange.

[Arkash]

And the nameless Thenn warg who received an arrow in the head.

That was a shame, imo, I would have liked Gatt's character to live a while longer if only to have one more warg in the show.

[Hippocras]

I must have seen another show, one that the last we saw Stannis he got denied at the Bank. I also must have dreamed seeing that footage of Martin explaining all of this, which should have been included in the show in the first place.

I think since Martin already used the whole saving the kingdom lines in those inside the episode videos we are not getting that in the actual episode

Apparently I (and the show) need to be a bit more explicit.

"Setting up events" does not mean "directly tell the audience that Stannis is going to the Wall", or details of any other specific event that will happen.

Stannis's trip to the Wall was set up by the following things:

1. Scenes showing him mulling what to do after the Blackwater. Thing we learn: He isn't giving up and will be going somewhere. But where and how?

2. Davos shows Stannis letter from the Wall. Mel, who Stannis places enormous faith in (particularly now that her leech trick seems to have worked) says "these wars of kings are meaningless" or something very similar, as a direct response to the threat to the Wall mentioned in the letter. Thing we learn: Stannis takes the Wall threat seriously now, decided not to kill Davos because of it, and reinstated Davos as Hand. Mel says the threat to the Wall is the only fight that matters; the real war.

3. Now in season 4 we have Stannis trying to find ships and fighters in order to execute some new plan. You might have forgotten about season 3, but that is your problem, not the show's. If you actually keep in mind where Stannis left off season 3 ( aware of the serious threat to the Wall) then you might have some incling that the new plan is a continuation of the previous season's final scenes.

4. Stannis goes to Braavos, at first he is rejected, but later we see Davos managed to change the minds of the Iron Bankers. Stannis has his loan. New plan begins active phase. S. Saan is hired for his ships.

5. Mel in her bath jokes that she had a vision that it would be her last warm bath in a very long time. Impliction: they are all (including Selyse and Shireen) going somewhere where access to warmth and baths is very limited. Gee, could that be the Wall?

[igrewupinKL]

Arkash yeh i forgot about him, his presence on the show seemed pretty useless. i thought they would have done something with him because he is a known actor...but nope.

Btw i think it is a good idea to have another skinchanger on the show since Bran is not in season 5. When is Jon going to realise he is a Warg? or does he already know?

its like hinted at in season 3 that scene with Orell and jon goes "what is he doing?"

[Hippocras]

Now to continue the point of the previous exchange:

Jon's election needs to be set up. It will not happen in a single episode.

Yes, the need for a chosing has been mentioned, however what has not been set up is the fact that his election is not EASY. He faces resistance. Serious resistance linked to distrust of him because of his comeraderie with the wildlings, and his identity as a Stark bastard, Ned having been branded a traitor to the crown. The fact that Jon's election is DIFFICULT is very important for setting up the Ides of Marsh. Because it is difficult, it needs more scenes and slower execution than a quick proclamation of a popular guy as leader would.

[sj4iy]

Maybe for the watch is pushed to S6 because Jon is permanently removed?

House Stark needs to be extinguished for the atrocities of the Night's King (and bad decisions in general)

...you can't be serious.

[aFeastForDragons]

I honestly don't think the writers care whether people might get 'spoiled' next season if they see Kit Harington filming. There's really very little they can do about it, so I don't see it as a factor for whether they include 'for the Watch' or anything after that.

Damn I never even thought about this. If anyone did a bit of research during the filming of season 3 they would know that Davos was alive.

[Chloe.a.thomson]

Jon's election needs to be set up. It will not happen in a single episode.

Yes, the need for a chosing has been mentioned, however what has not been set up is the fact that his election is not EASY. He faces resistance. Serious resistance linked to distrust of him because of his comeraderie with the wildlings, and his identity as a Stark bastard, Ned having been branded a traitor to the crown. The fact that Jon's election is DIFFICULT is very important for setting up the Ides of Marsh. Because it is difficult, it needs more scenes and slower execution than a quick proclamation of a popular guy as leader would.

In addition, I felt that Jon's election required one of the biggest suspensions of belief in the books (in a series full of dragons and white walkers). It will be interesting to see how it is handled since the show MAY not have time to delve too deeply into politics at the wall, especially with a Hardhome equivalent slated for ep 508, (at which point I would think Jon would have been LC for at least a few eps).

[ADanceWithCats]

Yes, the need for a chosing has been mentioned, however what has not been set up is the fact that his election is not EASY. He faces resistance. Serious resistance linked to distrust of him because of his comeraderie with the wildlings, and his identity as a Stark bastard, Ned having been branded a traitor to the crown. The fact that Jon's election is DIFFICULT is very important for setting up the Ides of Marsh. Because it is difficult, it needs more scenes and slower execution than a quick proclamation of a popular guy as leader would.

Eh, that's not how it happened in the books. As soon as the elections started, I knew that Jon would win. You, probably, too. That's the narrative imperative.

I'd much rather the show got the election out of the way soon (Jon is already the Watch representative as far as Stannis is concerned), and concentrated on Jon's decisions and/or mistakes - instead of getting cute and pretending there was any chance he wouldn't win.

[Hippocras]

Eh, that's not how it happened in the books. As soon as the elections started, I knew that Jon would win. You, probably, too. That's the narrative imperative.

I'd much rather the show got the election out of the way soon (Jon is already the Watch representative as far as Stannis is concerned), and concentrated on Jon's decisions and/or mistakes - instead of getting cute and pretending there was any chance he wouldn't win.

There is no way Jon's election would have happened in the books without him being a compromise candidate, who Sam basically tricked the Watch elders to elect.

The show doesn't have time or the actors to set up those competing factions in the Watch, however they HAVE stated to set up distrust of Jon over involvement with wildlings and his identity as Ned's bastard (Thorne "I don't trust the bastard"). these things were reasons for unease before Jon became LC in the books, even if not prominent during the election. Add to that the show creation of Olly as a character, and you can bet that they are making Jon's arc, and resistance to him as leader, all about him and the wildlings. Which means they need to establish the hatred of the wildlings in the Watch, explore Olly's pain over his parents a bit more, show Jon's relationship to Stannis and the wildling leaders - and do it at least in part before the election. If not it is an election without drama. Which is not so great for a TV drama.

[Le Cygne]

Then the Varamyr prologue takes place with the skinchanging- showing that it is an abomination to skinchange into a human- and then in ep 10 when the Ides of Marsh happens perhaps that will be a good way to lead into Jon's warging into Ghost (if that happens). So far we've only seen Bran and Orell skinchange.

I would pay them lots of money to see Arya skinchange the cat in Braavos. I really want to see that.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Episode 1 is a little too early for the election IMO. I'd be happy if the election got half of episode 2 kinda like the Purple Wedding and/or Tyrion's trial. They might even end the episode with Janos' execution.

[sj4iy]

Damn I never even thought about this. If anyone did a bit of research during the filming of season 3 they would know that Davos was alive.

Yeah, spoilers while filming are practically impossible to keep without being 'inventive'. It was practically a circus when Sherlock started filming season 3 and how he survived the fall. They actually had to film several different versions to try to throw people off. I doubt GoT would spend the time doing such a thing, though, or even care about it.

[sj4iy]

In addition, I felt that Jon's election required one of the biggest suspensions of belief in the books (in a series full of dragons and white walkers). It will be interesting to see how it is handled since the show MAY not have time to delve too deeply into politics at the wall, especially with a Hardhome equivalent slated for ep 508, (at which point I would think Jon would have been LC for at least a few eps).

Actually, I agree with you. I didn't like the way the books handled his election at all, it just didn't seem remotely realistic (and I'm not just talking about the raven). However, I think the show has done something to correct that...they moved the Wildling attack out and gave Jon more time at CB after he returned...which gave him plenty of time to 'prove' that he wasn't a turncloak. They gave him a trial where he was exonerated; they showed him teaching the new recruits how to fight, as well as leading a successful mission to Craster's Keep to kill the mutineers. And then we see him during the Battle of Castle Black taking leadership and holding the Wall, and choosing to sacrifice himself to kill Mance instead of being sent to do it. They also had Sam discover Janos Slynt's cravenness and Alliser Thorne get severely injured, so that pretty much takes out Jon's only real competition. If they were to hold the election in episode 1, it would make perfect sense for Jon to be elected, unlike how the book did it.

[Woofless]

Yeah, spoilers while filming are practically impossible to keep without being 'inventive'. It was practically a circus when Sherlock started filming season 3 and how he survived the fall. They actually had to film several different versions to try to throw people off. I doubt GoT would spend the time doing such a thing, though, or even care about it.

In Doctor Who a major scene filmed in Trafalgar Square was filmed with the actors just mouthing the words for secrecy sake. The words were then put in in Post.

[sj4iy]

In Doctor Who a major scene filmed in Trafalgar Square was filmed with the actors just mouthing the words for secrecy sake. The words were then put in in Post.

Moffat is a tricksy one. Of course, in the end, it doesn't always do them much good. Spoilers still leak, and people still figure things out. So it's probably a fruitless effort.

[Hippocras]

Actually, I agree with you. I didn't like the way the books handled his election at all, it just didn't seem remotely realistic (and I'm not just talking about the raven). However, I think the show has done something to correct that...they moved the Wildling attack out and gave Jon more time at CB after he returned...which gave him plenty of time to 'prove' that he wasn't a turncloak. They gave him a trial where he was exonerated; they showed him teaching the new recruits how to fight, as well as leading a successful mission to Craster's Keep to kill the mutineers. And then we see him during the Battle of Castle Black taking leadership and holding the Wall, and choosing to sacrifice himself to kill Mance instead of being sent to do it. They also had Sam discover Janos Slynt's cravenness and Alliser Thorne get severely injured, so that pretty much takes out Jon's only real competition. If they were to hold the election in episode 1, it would make perfect sense for Jon to be elected, unlike how the book did it.

It would make some sense, yes, but it would do a poor job of setting up the rest of the season and eventually the Ides, and it would be a boring election without competitors.

His leadership potential has been established. Resistance TO him as a leader has not.

[sj4iy]

It would make some sense, yes, but it would do a poor job of setting up the rest of the season and eventually the Ides, and it would be a boring election without competitors.

His leadership potential has been established. Resistance TO him as a leader has not.

Janos Slynt: "The Bastard is well-liked. You're not."

Thorne: "What, you think I care if they like me? We're at war."

Janos Slynt: "For now. But you can't be acting commander forever. There will be a choosing. The old maester will insist on it. You might reconsider his request to march on Craster's. Let the mutineers take care of Snow...or you might be taking orders from him the rest of your life."

And then we have the scene where Jon suggests blocking up the tunnel and Thorne asks Yarwick his opinion...and he nervously agrees with Thorne.

There is plenty of resistance to Jon's authority. Becoming LC isn't the difficult part...it's working with the people who hate him that is the hard part.

[Hippocras]

^Thorne and Slynt, neither of whom are credible leaders for different reasons, doesn't count as either competition, or setting the ground for broader mutiny. Right now, the show gives the impression that aside from those two, who everyone hates, everyone in the Watch loves Jon.

It is not enough to set up a good election or an interesting season.