James Arryn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Didn't GRRM say that he based a lot of the story on the Rois Maudits (Accursed Kings in english) series of novels? The parralels indeed show up from time to time.He wrote the foreward for my version, explicitly gives it a lot of credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was worse, he was deeply dependent on Tywin .When Robert first saw Tywin ,he thought he was the king .Then after Tywin killed Elia and her children , he was grateful, and now millions of dollars owed ,trapped in a loveless marriage , Lannisters and their allies running wild in King's Landing he grew to despise to hate the Lannisters but he was dependent on them ,Robert became like a man trapped on a wild horse unable to let go . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was worse, he was deeply dependent on Tywin .When Robert first saw Tywin ,he thought he was the king .Then after Tywin killed Elia and her children , he was grateful, and now millions of dollars owed ,trapped in a loveless marriage , Lannisters and their allies running wild in King's Landing he grew to despise to hate the Lannisters but he was dependent on them ,Robert became like a man trapped on a wild horse unable to let go .I think it was Ned who thought Tywin was king. Or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think it was Ned who thought Tywin was king. Or both?It was Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was StannisYeah, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinoiserie Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was Stannis and Robert both, Stannis was the one who told the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Robert wanted to die as soon as possible, that's it... he felt happy talking to Ned about them building a great dynasty and damn Tywin and his strings but like most words Bob says, it's just his heart talking... he returns to the Red Keep and all his morale drops again and again, he was not made for that setup.... Now if Ned was killed a spark might light the fire, but just until revenge was taken... then he would go to the grave road even faster, Ned was all he had left that linked him to his glorious past-self... "Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. “Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!”Catelyn II AGOT Grant you, Robert changed after Ned meets him in Winterfell, but some traits never go... Robert makes empty threats all the time, that´s why IMO he couldn´t kill any children, not Jon, Aegon or Rhaenys for example, or put friends on spikes... but that's my take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 If anything that makes war with Tywin more appealing to Robert. How could he afford it? Tywin is richer and could fight a defensive war as Robert's army starves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 How could he afford it? Tywin is richer and could fight a defensive war as Robert's army starves. Because you can't fight a war against army that outnumbers yours several times. Tywin, for all his cunning and riches, can't ever hope to win war against 6 out of 7 kingdoms alone. And this would also be a war where he would have no allies - Tully/Stark/Baratheon/Arryn alliance would reform again, Dorne is pissed dues to Elia and kids, while Tyrells wouldn't want to join a losing side. You're vastly overestimating Tywin's position here, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Because you can't fight a war against army that outnumbers yours several times. Tywin, for all his cunning and riches, can't ever hope to win war against 6 out of 7 kingdoms alone. And this would also be a war where he would have no allies - Tully/Stark/Baratheon/Arryn alliance would reform again, Dorne is pissed dues to Elia and kids, while Tyrells wouldn't want to join a losing side. You're vastly overestimating Tywin's position here, IMO. Why would every kingdom come to Robert's aid so he can plunder the West, which has been propping his crown up? Dorne might come. or they may not. Robert rebelling indirectly led to the deaths of Elia and Rhaenys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Why would every kingdom come to Robert's aid so he can plunder the West, which has been propping his crown up? Dorne might come. or they may not. Robert rebelling indirectly led to the deaths of Elia and Rhaenys.They're not coming to Robert's aid - he would be giving them royal command, just like in the case of Greyjoy's rebellion. That's like asking why would Marbrands, Swifts, Leffords etc. come to Tywin's aid when Robert attacks him. Not doing so is grave offense and can have lethal consequences.About Dorne - after crying for justice for 15 years, you think they'd miss a chance for payback on a guy who directly ordered murder of Elia and her kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cadwan Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Robert rebelling indirectly led to the Elia and Rhaenys but the Lannisters directly led to the deaths of Elia and Rhaenys-I think the Dornish would leap at any chance of a war with the Lannisters that they would probably win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Actually, having a crown hugely in your debt can be a very dangerous place to be. Ask Jacques de Molay. Robert I≠Philip IV Robert was probably the first king since Jaehaerys I who had the opportunity to truly change the realm, simply due to the support for his reign and his lack of political opposition, yet Westeros looks the same as it did under the Targaryens except the Stag is above the Red Keep and men no longer fuck their sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yeah, that makes sense. Steffon took Robert and Stannis to court, they thought that the dragon skulls were fearsome and the king was majestic, it was only afterwards that their father told them that Aerys had cut himself on the Iron Throne before their arrival; it was Tywin they took for a king. Here it is: I remember the first time my father took me to court, Robert had to hold my hand. I could not have been older than four, which would have made him five or six. We agreed afterward that the king had been as noble as the dragons were fearsome." Stannis snorted. "Years later, our father told us that Aerys had cut himself on the throne that morning, so his Hand had taken his place. It was Tywin Lannister who'd so impressed us. A Search of Ice and Fire is officially my favourite website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Robert I≠Philip IV Robert was probably the first king since Jaehaerys I who had the opportunity to truly change the realm, simply due to the support for his reign and his lack of political opposition, yet Westeros looks the same as it did under the Targaryens except the Stag is above the Red Keep and men no longer fuck their sisters. So what of it? There are no social structures in Westeros to support a move away from feudalism and Robert's support is likely to evaporate if he starts to menddle with the structures that keeps his supports in the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It was Stannis and Robert both, Stannis was the one who told the story. Stannis was so overwhelmed by everything that Robert had to hold his hand. What the hell happened to those kids? I need a fanart of this scene... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Stannis was so overwhelmed by everything that Robert had to hold his hand. What the hell happened to those kids? I need a fanart of this scene... :( http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6jyvvgLoT1qjdu12o1_r1_500.png there you go :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_lost_arryn19 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Militarily Robert was absolutely no afraid of Tywin. First off; I don't think that tywin would have the full loyalty of his own region vs Robert. Robert was a "warrior" king of the 7 kingdoms with the absolute loyalty of the storm lands, the north, the vale, the riverlands, the crownlands, and the isles of the narrow sea. At this point as well it would be pretty safe to assume that the reach was in full support of the baratheon dynasty as proved by renly and loras's plan to dispose of cercei and get Robert to bed and wed Margery. The iron islands would have either done nothing or would have aided Robert because of theon being a hostage. Lastly Dorne most likely would hve helped Robert in this particular occasion to get revenge against Tywin for Elia and her children. I think it's pretty safe to assume Tywin would never risk war with Robert ESPECIALLY if the reinvest was discovered publicly and the children all being jaimes. Most of the western lords would probably abandon him considering that no lordIs going to help the losing side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 At any rate, he could have lost any war against Robert and six more Houses, lose all of his power, and get his mines confiscated. There, you have money to pay all the Crown's debts. :dunno: That's not really how a feudal monarchy works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Militarily Robert was absolutely no afraid of Tywin. First off; I don't think that tywin would have the full loyalty of his own region vs Robert. Robert was a "warrior" king of the 7 kingdoms with the absolute loyalty of the storm lands, the north, the vale, the riverlands, the crownlands, and the isles of the narrow sea. I wouldn't call it absolute authority. Both the Stormlands and the Reach were about to help Renly usurp Roberts sons throne. Even the Crownlands Houses, who Stannis is telling them that Joffrey is a bastard, dont take much convincing or evidence to strike up against (possibly) Roberts sons. When Robb calls his fathers banners and they respond you could call that approaching absolute loyalty(for obvious reasons we know even that it is not), Robert didn't have that no matter how fun and jovial he seemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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