Does anyone else care that GRRM gave away the mysteries and ending to the show's directors?

[Yela]

I try to see it this way. The storytellers(GRRM/D&D) are singing the song of ASOIAF. Just like how in the past people/bards tell stories but, usually, they don't tell it the same way. But they get the same ending, anyway.

If you don't look at it like, "books are higher and better than the show." then you won't have much of a problem. Both GRRM and D&D know the story, they're just telling it differently. If you're fan of the books then choose the books, if you're fan of the show, go with the show.

The books spoiled half of the show, the show is now gonna spoil the other half. Not saying that's fair, but that's just how it is, + GRRM is getting lots of money so him making HBO wait till he release his final books is not a good idea.

[Trillian]

Let's go back to the original question, "why George R.R. Martin is ok with this?"

Well, because he made a deal with HBO, and the deal undoubtedly included a large amount of money, that's the main thing.

Then he might have misjudged the amount of time it would take him to complete the series, or he was just ok with letting D&D tell the story their own way (as a former TV writer, I'm sure he grasped how TV works when it comes to adapting an original work, and he was aware of the possibility of significant deviations down the road). It was an informed decision on his side, you might be happy with it or not, but that's a different thing.

[BalerionTheCat]

Yes, I am very surprised and disappointed by GRMM giving his story ending to HBO. With all his talk of surprising his readers and forbidding spoilers on his blog. However, I'm convinced the core of his story doesn't interest HBO. They dropped most of the prophecies things, the magic, Euron and fAegon and LSH, the Age of Legends and other stuff. And GRRM seems busy writing new things that HBO cannot or would not want to adapt. OK, they may have Jon, Daenerys and Tyrion alive or dead, like in the books. But it will not go much further.

[alienarea]

If the book series had started with AFfC and ADwD, HBO would not have bought it.

GRRM has to prove that he can still write ASoS quality, and unfortunately the released sample chapters for TWoW don't prove it.

[zeppelincheetah]

I honestly don't mind. I have a short memory when it comes to these sorts of things, and in the time between the end of the show and the last book I will have forgotten most of what happens in the show. The books will no doubt be 10x better than the show. I think those that are resisting being spoiled should just relax and watch the show, because the books aren't on pace to end until at least 2023 at my estimate (and that is assuming he sticks to 7 books) and that is a long ass time to wait. I admit I started on the show. I watched the first two seasons before I began to read the books (which I have so far read all the way through twice and plan to read them again as soon as TWOW's publishing date is revealed, likely next summer for an early 2017 release) but I can still enjoy reading the books and keep what happens in them separate from the show.

[lenniegroove]

People often forget that there is a very real possibility that the books are never completed.

Yup.

[lenniegroove]

The books will no doubt be 10x better than the show.

I would take exception to this. It's certainly possible, but far from certain.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Im ok with the show existing and them knowing the outcome. Im also ok with changes in the story. What im not ok with, is the devil-may-care attitude the show runners have towards this body of work. Its like they got to the Red Wedding, and fuck the rest that comes after it. They dont seem too arsed about telling the story the best way they can now. Its now about ratings and how much buzz they can generate.

[Pashernate Reader]

I knew the end of Julius Caesar before I saw it performed. All the major plot points were known to anyone in the audience who'd ever cracked open a history book. But I still enjoyed the play.

And I loathe the attitude that if a character is eliminated, he or she must "not matter" in the books. Nothing in the books actually "matters." The only question is whether or not it's fun to read.

Quentyn Martell is a martyr to this fact.

[Zyxw]

(My main point: I really hate the fact that GRRM revealed his planned ending to the show's directors and that the show intends to end the way the novels will. I don't want anyone to tell me how one my favorite epic fantasy series end BEFORE THE BOOK IS OUT, let alone have it broadcast worldwide on one of the most popular show on TV. )

On his Not A Blog this week GRRM stated:

"There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material, by and large (if you doubt that, talk to the Harry Dresden fans, or readers of the Sookie Stackhouse novels, or the fans of the original WALKING DEAD comic books)... but the longer the show goes on, the bigger the butterflies become. And now we have reached the point where the beat of butterfly wings is stirring up storms, like the one presently engulfing my email.

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can.

And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose... but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place."

Since GRRM wont accept comments there, I’m posting here and other places, as I think Mr Martin is avoiding the question. This “let the show be the show and the books be the books” is simply avoiding the question of WHY in the hell is GRRM OK with the show being a huge spoiler-fest for all us long time devoted fans of the books. The show is more and more diverging from the books. Which is just fine by me, I love the show as well. We all get TWO variant versions of a story we love. Fine with me, makes me enjoy the show more actually. However, what I personally emphatically DO NOT want, or see absolutely any call for, is for the show to HAVE to end the way the books do. GRRM is trying to have it both ways, ‘the show is different so calm down’ he seems to say – and yet the show IS NOT different (so we are told) in how it will END apparently. Since it is very very likely that the show will end well before GRRM completes his last novel A Dream of Spring” (sometime in ~2020 is my guess), this means that the show will divulge the ending and the mysteries before the book is out, which I very much dislike. I just cannot understand WHY GRRM felt compelled to tell his secrets on various mysteries, and the novels ending to the show’s directors, knowing full well the show would have to diverge anyway. I am happy to let the show be the show and the books be the books – BUT IS GRRM willing to also???? This is very disappointing to me, just curious if anyone else out there feels the same. (Maybe it's just some of us fans of the books that have been around for over a decade now, for sure the TV show-only fans could care less.)

You are right that the whole argument is contradictory. Show is show, book is book. No, show is an adaptation of the book and it started out as a very good one and it's on it's way to be one of the worst ones if you ask my opinion. The bad thing is, yes it will end before the books. That one is almost certain. And it will spoil a lot of mysteries of the book, but the whole show itself is probably not going to be a good way of learning them. It will simply feel as if someone spoiled you the ending of a story, amd will tell you all of it in 10 minutes in a very butchered summary; sometimes with changed plotlines due to wrong memory.

So. Take my advice. Don't watch GoT after this season. Stay away from internet about Asoiaf, don't speak to your friends or relatives about it and even stay off of shitpiles like youtube comments even if it's of a justin bieber video (but again, why would you watch justing bieber videos on youtube?). That's what I'm planning to do at least, and then only after 2020 I will take a look at the show if I feel like it.

Good points but perhaps as a consolatory mitigation consider that Isn't it about the journey rather than the destination? Another out of the box way to look at it would be that all along you have known what generally happens in the show because the books spoilt it but you still watched it and now it's just in reverse for the small part of the series. I know its not that simple but a consolation anyway. Also consider - Universe forbid, that if the books never finish for whatever reason the show offers the same closure.

[Coldivore]

I'm pretty pleased they are doing it. Changing a lot of stuff from the books, and also omitting a lot of plots ruined the show for me. So, having an alternate ending will be in the book fans favor sense spoilers will be at minimum. I don't think that GRRM would reveal the ending of his novel to the directors, so they are free to do whatever fanfiction they please. The show, to me, is a side dish. All I care about at the meantime is the real deal: the upcoming books.

[Lord Fauntleroy]

Eh, I'll probably still watch. I had Joffrey's death spoiled before I read it (and before the show got to it) and it was still an exciting read. There's a difference between watching and reading, and I don't think one truly ruins the other. Joffrey's death on TV, even after hearing about it years ago, then reading it in the book, and knowing it was coming was still entertaining to watch.

Maybe you should just relax.

[CornCornSnow]

I love ASOIAF, I do believe that GRRM is the American Tolkien, but I am very sad about the situation with HBO. I hope we can all learn something from this about selling rights to important works before they are complete. I fear that GRRM may have damaged his legacy for temporary gain. 100 years from now, people will still be reading ASOIAF, but the TV show will be forgotten in some archive somewhere.

[ValrianSunni]

I just enjoyed watching Wolf Hall, both onstage and on public television. I'd read the books first and knew the story of Henry VIII before Wolf Hall existed. I don't think the ASOIAF books COULD be the same as the tv show, end like the Tv show, or be ruined by the tv show.

Strangely enough, I am also relieved that GRRM shared his plans with D&D. It's like insurance.

Since GRRM worked in series tv for many years, maybe he wanted to collaborate on the material with D&D for television. He adapted Beauty and the Beast, maybe he wanted to experience that from the other side, by having someone else adapt his work. There's only so much you can do with money. He doesn't seem like a man who's driven by material concerns.

[shadow282]

I'm pretty pleased they are doing it. Changing a lot of stuff from the books, and also omitting a lot of plots ruined the show for me. So, having an alternate ending will be in the book fans favor sense spoilers will be at minimum. I don't think that GRRM would reveal the ending of his novel to the directors, so they are free to do whatever fanfiction they please. The show, to me, is a side dish. All I care about at the meantime is the real deal: the upcoming books.

A) They're doing the same ending because

B) of course he revealed the ending to them. He had no choice.

[Dragon_Rider]

A) They're doing the same ending because

B) of course he revealed the ending to them. He had no choice.

Did the contract stipulate that he is not free to change his mind?

He told them what the intended ending was at the time. But given how many years he's taking to write the last two books, who knows. He may well deviate from his own original plans that he revealed to them.

In any case, for people who love the books enough, there's no reason they can't avoid the show and wait the 10 to 20 years GRRM will surely take to finish them.

Personally I'm not that patient. We could all die any day and more so 10 to 20 years from now and never know how it ends. Valar morghulis.

[rocksniffer]

no i don't care cause i want to know what happens before i die....

:smoking:

[Rise Above]

Uh, no. Martin works too goddamn slow. I wanna know how this whole thing ends before I stop caring.

[shadow282]

Did the contract stipulate that he is not free to change his mind?

He told them what the intended ending was at the time. But given how many years he's taking to write the last two books, who knows. He may well deviate from his own original plans that he revealed to them.

In any case, for people who love the books enough, there's no reason they can't avoid the show and wait the 10 to 20 years GRRM will surely take to finish them.

Personally I'm not that patient. We could all die any day and more so 10 to 20 years from now and never know how it ends. Valar morghulis.

It's entirely possible that the contract did. But it doesn't really matter either way though. Because he's repeatedly stated he's not going to change the ending. So sure, it's possibly, but incredibly unlikely and there's no reason to think it will happen. Plus, he's had 5 huge books full of foreshadowing for this particular ending. There's no way he'd be able to come up with another ending that wasn't significantly worse without ignoring large portions of the previous books.

[JonSnowed]

I'm pretty pleased they are doing it. Changing a lot of stuff from the books, and also omitting a lot of plots ruined the show for me. So, having an alternate ending will be in the book fans favor sense spoilers will be at minimum. I don't think that GRRM would reveal the ending of his novel to the directors, so they are free to do whatever fanfiction they please. The show, to me, is a side dish. All I care about at the meantime is the real deal: the upcoming books.

They are not having an alternative ending it will be the same in both books and show, D&D and GRRM have confirmed it on more than one occasion. The show runners know the endings of all major characters and have access to all draft material for the next book so it's unlikely we will see total fan fiction next season.