Swordfish Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I would have a huge problem with eliminating birthright citizenship. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 birthright citizenship made sense to give stateless slaves and their descendants full rights in the current era of relatively cheap/short migration ability and welfare states, it creates a perverse incentive lovers of freedom should be wary of mass migration of people from countries that are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 lovers of freedom should be wary of mass migration of people from countries that are not Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Freedom lovers beware: I heard freedom is only using you to have babies as a path to citizenship/sweet sweet entitlements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Robust immigration makes social welfare spending much more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Can you point to a single (American) liberal commentator or politician actually making this argument? I'm genuinely curious. The news media I consume is, for the most part, extremely liberal - MSNBC, NPR, etc. I can't recall anyone actually making that argument. Virtually all of the opposition I've seen to the idea of revoking birthright citizenship is based on the general notion that the policy change is designed to hurt undocumented immigrants from Mexico and South America, which is true as far as it goes. I'll see what I can dig up later. It's been awhile and it doesn't get front place because usually the argument isn't about why jus sanguinis is bad but about why the person proposing it is doing it because they are flagrantly racist. And so criticisms of jus sanguinis itself don't come up. But when I've seen the actual issue brought up, usually in the context of european issues like riots in France, it's specifically about jus sanguinis and how it helps create a perpetual underclass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Don't Libertarians support.open borders? Seems like birth right citizenship on.every nation would be a pretty big step towards unrestricted movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Don't Libertarians support.open borders? Seems like birth right citizenship on.every nation would be a pretty big step towards unrestricted movement. Yes. Consistent libertarians should support open borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yes. Consistent libertarians should support open borders. not if they want to live in a country with a libertarian populace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 not if they want to live in a country with a libertarian populace But then why would libertarians want to live in a non-libertarian state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 not if they want to live in a country with a libertarian populaceSo basically, you just want to live in your own, cozy little sphere wherein everyone shares the same sociopolitical views as you, but society doesn't actually function according to those views you purport to have when it's inconvenient for you? Sounds terribly familiar. If enacting your political ideology in a theoretically consistent manner seriously impinges its ability to continually exist at all, that may indicate there are problems with your ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Did you even read the links? Those folks were hardly one step away from getting the Trostskies. The "moderate"/establishment Republicans who call the term racist do so as a way of avoiding responsibility, since it's really about them. Yes. Consistent libertarians should support open borders. Yeah, it's the main issue where I differ from libertarian doctrine Don't Libertarians support.open borders? Seems like birth right citizenship on.every nation would be a pretty big step towards unrestricted movement. It's kinda like nuclear disarmament. Sure, if every other nation agrees to do it then I'm game. Otherwise we're suffering the consequences disproportionately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The "moderate"/establishment Republicans who call the term racist do so as a way of avoiding responsibility, since it's really about them. Regardless of the etymology of the term "cuckservative" it seems like it's especially gained traction with the alt-right as a way of denigrate the mainstream/establishment conservatives for not being racist, sexist and homophobic enough. See that link to Return of Kings on the Breitbart article Nestor linked to. While somebody using the term "cuckservative" isn't necessarily a racist, Bayesian estimation for me puts the probability at ~80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So basically, you just want to live in your own, cozy little sphere wherein everyone shares the same sociopolitical views as you, but society doesn't actually function according to those views you purport to have when it's inconvenient for you? All political ideologies bump up against reality from time to time. It's not an easy question, and reducing it to a "gotcha!" or snarking about hypocrisy does nothing to answer it If enacting your political ideology in a theoretically consistent manner seriously impinges its ability to continually exist at all, that may indicate there are problems with your ideology. But this applies to all political systems that have elections and allow a good deal of freedom, not just libertarianism. Nation-states are made up of people, not ideologies. If enough people in a social democracy vote for a fascist, for example, it won't be a social democracy for long. And if a country lets itself get swarmed by immigrants it's political values will change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So how can you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Sometimes you just have to accept the inevitable. Population growth is biological. People gotta be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Regardless of the etymology of the term "cuckservative" it seems like it's especially gained traction with the alt-right as a way of denigrate the mainstream/establishment conservatives for not being racist, sexist and homophobic enough. See that link to Return of Kings on the Breitbart article Nestor linked to. While somebody using the term "cuckservative" isn't necessarily a racist, Bayesian estimation for me puts the probability at ~80%. I visit alt-right blogs sometimes (variety is the spice of life after all ) and I agree there's definitely a high degree of correlation. But there's other factors as well; I've seen the term used against Republicans when they pledge support for Israel or suck up to corporate donors. Tacitly supporting Obamacare or Planned Parenthood, like the GOP leadership does, will also get you the "cuck" label Some of the alt-right openly embrace racism and bigotry, others just don't buy into the PC/left-wing framing of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So how can you tell? Who benefits? Sometimes you just have to accept the inevitable. Population growth is biological. People gotta be. But there's reasonable ways to prevent, or at least stall, major demographic change before it reaches the tipping point. It's only inevitable if a society decides to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If you don't care about people being racist or using racist language, you're being a shitty person. If you don't care about the fact that you're being a shitty person, I guess that's not surprising, given that shitty people generally don't care about, or know that they're being shitty people. The wikipedia source was a Southern Poverty Law Center hit piece quoting Buzzfeed of all things. So yeah there's that. The term "cuckold" refers to a specific sub-genre of pornography, where the main attraction is the husband becomes the cuckold as his wife engages in sex with another man. In many cases, the bull (the name for the man who is having sex with another man's wife) is often black, setting up a racially charged scenario. It also often involves insults to the husband for having a penis that is shown to be smaller than that of the bull's. The word dates back to at least the 16th century, and has been in common use way way before internet porn was a thing. I'm not saying what you've described isn't a thing, I have no idea and I'm not going to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 SPLC: "Ladies and gentlemen, look at the person on your left. Now the person on your right. Statistics show that both of them are racists." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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