[BOOK SPOILERS] EP103 Discussion II

[The Anti-Targ]

Right at the end, his sword breaks. That's when Arya runs away.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's alive. But there's no doubt we are all assuming he's dead because his death has never been confirmed. And as we know, even people who die "on screen" occasionally come back in this story. So there's no way you can be certain of an off screen death.

It's also possible that Syrio turns up in Arya's story and "rescues her" from becomming a faceless (wo)man. Turning her into an honourable swords(wo)man in the image of the Braavosi first sword. People are worried Arya's becoming a little sociopath, so Syrio pulling her back from that fate is a legitimate and reasonable comeback for the presumed dead swordmaster.

[Tywin's bastard]

Dont wanna sound boneheaded about this, but what purpose does keeping Syrio alive serve? I would be disappointed if GRRM denied Syrio an honorable death, which is unlikely considering Martin's style.

Some people think Syrio is Jaqen H'gar, or rather that both were to identities of the same faceless man. It's a bit far fetched though as some things must be really strained to add up.

[L’Age d’or]

Some people think Syrio is Jaqen H'gar, or rather that both were to identities of the same faceless man. It's a bit far fetched though as some things must be really strained to add up.

Didnt he die/melted somehow? I always thought Jagen died too... If he aint dead as well I will go start reading Twilight.

[The King's Foot]

My quick-hit thoughts on the episode:

- Sean Bean is killing it as Ned, especially in this episode. The scene with Jamie in the throne room...Sean Bean made Ned look super dangerous there, bringing some of that irish terrorist from Patriot Games into the eyes. Jamie Lannister, you may be younger, a knight and a member of the elite Kingsguard, but Ned Stark's about to throw down and if looks could kill...

- Add also the final look he gives Catelyn as she rides out of KL - if you're like me and watching this with a spouse / sig other who has not read the series, how hard was it not to blurt out that this is the last time they see each other alive??

- The doll for Sansa: was it just me, or did anyone else hear Ned say "Here, this is from your Joff" when he handed it to her. I've read posts in this and the other thread saying how this scene and the subsequent scenes with Arya show how Ned doesn't "get" Sansa (but does Arya) b/c he gave Sansa such a childish gift. I was pretty sure watching this that the gift was from Joffrey, and since it followed the scene where Cersei advises Joff to do something nice for her, that made sense. From her reaction you can gleam that, at least in the TV series, Sansa is pissed at Joff about Lady. I think the writers are trying to keep viewers from despising Sansa by a)having Ned tell Arya why it was necessary for Sansa to stand by her man/boy; and b)showing Sansa as sullen and angry towards Joff due to Lady. So, when Joff lays it on thick for her during the Hand's Tourney, we'll see her fall back in love with him.

- Was anyone else annoyed that the uniqueness of Jamie's golden armor is not being represented? We see Jamie in the gold armor earlier, and I was thinking "Cool! There's the famous golden armor of Jamie Lannister!". Then we see Selmy wearing the same thing, and realize this is TV's version of the Kingsguard armor. Bummer.

- How badass/Jason Bourne-in-black was Jon Snow in this episode? He needs to be built up as a character to survive some serious fighting later on, and I think the TV writers are actually doing a better job showing how good a fighter he is than GRRM did.

Overall, this episode felt the most "divergent" in terms of the # of scenes not in the actual book (Robert's drunken war stories, Jamie/Ned in the throne room, Cersei/Joff etc...even Ned watching Arya train was not in the books). However, I still really enjoyed it, and frankly this episode helped me come to terms with how much the writers will have to deviate. Simply put, there is too much plot and character development that happens inside characters' inner monologues - the writers have to create scenes out of thin air that will help them get their points across on what makes each character tick without resorting to some ghastly narrator.

[Bishop437]

I cannot believe no one in this thread has wondered yet why Ghost wasn't in this episode.

I started a whole thread just about that very thing... mabey thats why I hasn't been brought up here

[Quithrill]

I notice alot of people griping that the Dany storyline isn't holding the interest of the nonreaders. I recall that on my first read through I didn't give a damn about Dany either. It just seemed like the narrative was ripping me away from the good stuff to show some girl travelling with a barbarian horde... again.

It wasn't until the very last image of her very last scene that I was like "Oh shit!" and became interested in reading about her. Granted, Dany has never been among my favorite perspectives but I'll take her over Brienne of Tarth any day.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

- The doll for Sansa: was it just me, or did anyone else hear Ned say "Here, this is from your Joff" when he handed it to her. I've read posts in this and the other thread saying how this scene and the subsequent scenes with Arya show how Ned doesn't "get" Sansa (but does Arya) b/c he gave Sansa such a childish gift. I was pretty sure watching this that the gift was from Joffrey, and since it followed the scene where Cersei advises Joff to do something nice for her, that made sense. From her reaction you can gleam that, at least in the TV series, Sansa is pissed at Joff about Lady. I think the writers are trying to keep viewers from despising Sansa by a)having Ned tell Arya why it was necessary for Sansa to stand by her man/boy; and b)showing Sansa as sullen and angry towards Joff due to Lady. So, when Joff lays it on thick for her during the Hand's Tourney, we'll see her fall back in love with him.

Ned says "this is for you, love."

Welcome to the board, by the way!

[Relic]

Didnt he die/melted somehow? I always thought Jagen died too... If he aint dead as well I will go start reading Twilight.

Why would Jaqen be dead?

[Bronn Stone]

-The Dany plotline has been the weakest part of the show, and I'm not particularly convinced by the show's depiction of her and Drogo's relationship at this point. It'd be nice to have some full dialogue scenes with Drogo and Dany so that them cuddling wouldn't come completely out of nowhere.

Can't yet. Don't share a language. She's not learned enough to order duck and rabbit for dinner, let alone ask him how his day was trampling the peasants. But she is learning.

Edited to add: Wait! I just noticed. Ghost was NOT in that episode. WTF is wrong with those people???

[Kaitscralt]

If the speculations are true he would be caught but not killed.

The order was to kill Syrio, given by the knight he was last seen fighting.

[L’Age d’or]

Why would Jaqen be dead?

Nvm, I just re-read that Arya chapter, my mistake. I guess reading the series on pot has its own disadvantages :rolleyes:

[legba11]

Ghost was in this episode. He was hunting beyond the wall when Jon looked out. He's Ghost, you just couldn't see him.

[The Brandon Stark]

Nvm, I just re-read that Arya chapter, my mistake. I guess reading the series on pot has its own disadvantages :rolleyes:

Yes it makes for advantages as well though...:smoking:

A few thoughts on Jaqen that never made sense in all the times I've read the books.

1. He's a bloody faceless man, how does he thrown in the black cells? they are only like the most elite assassins in the world. So assume he planted there.

2. By who? Tyrion mentions the cost is astronomical and he is a Lannister. Varys? Petyr? The Grand Maester?

3. If he was planted, then why the Wall, he has no knowledge of Arya until they are on the road. Yoren was only waiting for Eddard to leave, which means that Jaqen is already in the cart.

4. If he was paid to make it to the wall, why is he in the Citadel now?

[Relic]

Yes it makes for advantages as well though...:smoking:

A few thoughts on Jaqen that never made sense in all the times I've read the books.

1. He's a bloody faceless man, how does he thrown in the black cells? they are only like the most elite assassins in the world. So assume he planted there.

2. By who? Tyrion mentions the cost is astronomical and he is a Lannister. Varys? Petyr? The Grand Maester?

3. If he was planted, then why the Wall, he has no knowledge of Arya until they are on the road. Yoren was only waiting for Eddard to leave, which means that Jaqen is already in the cart.

4. If he was paid to make it to the wall, why is he in the Citadel now?

Jaqen = Syrio answers some of this.

[The Brandon Stark]

Jaqen = Syrio answers some of this.

How so? Again, he was locked in a cart heading for the wall when Yoren finds Arya by chance. And again, if J=S then why wouldn't he just change his face and look for Arya? He was wanted dead by Trant, so if Trant wins the fight it is only by Syrio's death. If Syrio escapes Trant, change face and bounce. Why go through the whole black cell thingy?

[Relic]

How so? Again, he was locked in a cart heading for the wall when Yoren finds Arya by chance. And again, if J=S then why wouldn't he just change his face and look for Arya? He was wanted dead by Trant, so if Trant wins the fight it is only by Syrio's death. If Syrio escapes Trant, change face and bounce. Why go through the whole black cell thingy?

Well, Syrio might yield and allow himself to get captured. At some point in the Black Cells he turns into Jaqen. Sheer chance sends him north with Arya...

It's not perfect, but it makes a lot more sense than a random faceless man stuck in the black cells. At least with the info we currently have.

[L’Age d’or]

Yes it makes for advantages as well though...:smoking:

A few thoughts on Jaqen that never made sense in all the times I've read the books.

1. He's a bloody faceless man, how does he thrown in the black cells? they are only like the most elite assassins in the world. So assume he planted there.

2. By who? Tyrion mentions the cost is astronomical and he is a Lannister. Varys? Petyr? The Grand Maester?

3. If he was planted, then why the Wall, he has no knowledge of Arya until they are on the road. Yoren was only waiting for Eddard to leave, which means that Jaqen is already in the cart.

4. If he was paid to make it to the wall, why is he in the Citadel now?

It could well be that he was sent to kill someone (Ned?) in the dungeons, Yoren's untimely visit fucks everything up and etc. Stupid/Far fetched or not thats how I got along with the idea.

[TerraPrime]

It could well be that he was sent to kill someone (Ned?) in the dungeons, Yoren's untimely visit fucks everything up and etc. Stupid/Far fetched or not thats how I got along with the idea.

Still some pieces missing from this puzzle yet, imo.

Not surprising, since we just started to see something about the Faceless Man in Feast.

I think we will eventually get the full answer, but we don't have all the information yet.

[tybeechris]

Yeah, me too. It is awesome to see other people working through the storyline, much like I did when I first read the books.

However, these people seem much smarter than me. I never suspected Joffrey, and the whole R+L=J theory never occurred to me (mostly because I didn't really dwell on it) until my friend told me about it.

I have no idea how they already have these theories and they have less information than I did when I first thought of them. They are pretty damn smart over there.

And I love how they refer to those of us who have read the books as "Bookwalkers" and they are members of the "Spitball Wall Watch".

Bookwalkers. I like that.

[tybeechris]

Sorry if this has already been touched on, but here's a thought on a re-watch:

The guy playing Benjen is INCREDIBLE. The scene where he lays it our for Tyrion is so good. An awesome highlight. I sure hope we see him again.

He's leaving in the morning. No more Benjen.