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[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!


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#21 David Selig

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:43 AM

Jaime admitted that Joffrey was his son to Catelyn in the books too during their talk before she released him. Given that in the show he didn't expect to last the night, and the rumor about twincest was already widely known thanks to Stannis, it's hardly a surprise that he admitted it. Why not be honest in your last conversation ever?

#22 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:45 AM

So later on in the series, "kinslaying" is shown to be a crime perhaps worse than "kingslaying". Yet Jaime beats his distant cousin to death as a part of his escape plan? Hasn't he heard of "playing dead"?

To paraphrase Tywin from season one, Alton may have been a lesser Lannister but he was still one of them.

#23 bikie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:47 AM

I think they dropped the ball on bran and rickon's cliffhanger, they couldn't have been more obvoious about what was going on, and no one I've spoken to or heard from taht didn't read the books thinks they are dead.

I also think they have lost all steam with the battle of blackwater. it will just appear in episode 9 without the buildup I think it deserved.

#24 Sand11751

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:52 AM

Because I live for genuine Sansa & Sandor scenes - what was the point of him being in the room after she has her period? I get that he's drawn to her, but that was creepy and foolish. The scenes between them that should have happened (truth about how he got burned, "Enough!) abandoned for that nonsense? As a sort-of aside, his words to her about "you'll be glad of the hateful things I do" made me wonder if Joffrey & Sansa ever married, whether Sandor would have paralleled Jaime, standing outside the bedchamber as another tyrant king abuses his queen, or if he would've gone all kingslayer too? These are things I ponder when the show doesn't give me shit else to work with.

Speaking of kingslayers, such a waste of that conversation between Cat and Jaime - Taunts? Check. Rudeness to Brienne? Check. Admitting he's only been with Cersei in front of Brienne? WTF. This is the secret he almost killed Bran for and a couple of eps back, he wouldn't even admit the incest to Robb. Now he's fine with a stranger knowing? A few weeks of being covered in your own shit wears Jaime down? Not buying it. And that crap with Alton? Jaime is desperate but he's not that cruel.

When since did Tyrion and Cersei become confidantes? Did she really admit to the incest in front of Tyrion? This would be the brother she gave the "love someone so I can take her from you" speech last week, right? Did she speak ill of her own child?

#25 Lord Over

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

You've all done such a bang up job that I don't know what else is there to say...

I like Cersei, she is a good character to hate (whereas others like Euron fail miserably IMHO) but I don't like this trend of making her, what's the word....sympathetic? Tragic?

Talisa brazenly looking at the kings tent in spite of Robb joking about her being a spy. Atleast with Tywin they've tried to 'dignify' the charade by making Tywin correct Arya. Talisa, on the other hand, straight up pole-vault over the social ladder.

#26 Evamitchelle

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:23 AM

I would have preferred it if Jaime had been drunk during that last conversation (he's a bit too chatty for a sober man here IMO). But to all the people who're surprised at him admitting to the incest in front of Cat and Brienne, that's exactly what he does in the books too. In Jaime's first POV in Storm Brienne is already aware that he threw Bran out the window and that he's in love with Cersei and he tells Cat right before she frees him.

However it's wildly out of character for Cersei to admit to the incest in front of Tyrion and muse on about sins and such. She doesn't give a shit about past sins. You win or you die. And she'll do anything to come out on top.

#27 kkae

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

I have convinced myself that Cat will cut Jaime's hand.

#28 Winterfellian

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:30 AM

I liked this episode better than the last one but it still falls short.

- Jaime the kinslayer...am not buying it. I don't mind so much that he admitted the incest in front of Catelyn and Brienne (he did admit it in the books as well, at least to Brienne) but I just don't see him murdering a Lannister

- Why can't Catelyn free Jaime after hearing from Bran and Rickon's death like in the books?

- The Jon ang Ygritte storyline is sooooo boring. Thir pointless chatter, wondering about and not to mention the catch and realease game they have going on is a recipe for sheer boredom for me. I will hate it if Jon doesn't kill the halfhand on command like on the books. This by far has been the most disappointing part of all the season.

- The Qarth storyline I will reserve my judgement until the end. But I actually like not knowing what is going t happen next.

#29 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

I have convinced myself that Cat will cut Jaime's hand.


Oh good Lord no...

You've made me very nervous for next week now /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#30 ThePrinceOfSunspear

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:19 AM

This episode was just the final nail in the coffin....WTF did I just watch?

Its clear at this point that HBO just doesn't give an F about the books.

This was just a disgusting episode. And the only scene I really liked was Arya and Tywin which of course didn't even occur in the books.

#31 Planetary

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

Tywin Lannister was laughing and smiling, tune in for episode 8 where he will give Arya a piggy-back ride around Harrenhall


You're right, the showrunners really overstepped their bounds by giving the audience more Tywin/Charles Dance at the expense of a minor, two-dimensional character who has no bearing on events in the long-run. And to pair a great actor like Dance with the amazing talent of Maisie Williams is offensive to George R.R. Martin and an affront to book-readers everwhere! Let us weep for the tragically shortchanged Ser Amory Lorch. </sarcasm>

Are some of you guys for real? Rose Leslie was incredible last night and the Ygritte scenes have singlehandedly revived what was becoming a maddeningly boring plot thread north of the wall. She was witty, she was hilarious, and she was completely believable in relentlessly mocking Jon Snow.

This season has stumbled in places, but for the most part it's clear the writers are more confident and comfortable enough to deviate from the source material for the sake of the narrative. And the books are good reads, but there are problems with using each book as a script -- season one was great despite enough expository dialogue to make George Lucas jealous. I don't think these deviations are taken lightly, and I don't think they happen without input from GRRM.

#32 Stanmore

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:33 AM

So was any one acting 'in character' in that episode?

We have Jaime killing his cousin for a futile and pointless escape attempt.
We have Jon Snow wandering around Iceland, arguing to Ygritte about what it means to be a virgin, not seeming to care that Ghost and his brothers are nowhere to be seen.
We've got Robb Stark and his holywood romance
Dany and her "I can't trust anyone" ranting
Xaro and his coup
Pyat Pree the dragon stealing dodecatuplet
Cersi unburdening her troubles to her beloved brother Tyrion
Shae threatening random maids to protect her new best friend Sansa.

Um... I guess Theon was acting like Theon so that's a plus.

#33 Frumpus

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

I actually can believe Jaime killing a cousin he doesn't even remember. The guy's been locked up and grown desperate, and I think rather than having an actual escape attempt, he wanted to do something that would put him out of his misery. He knew he wasn't getting out of there alive with his plan. So why would killing his cousin matter?

I don't get how things are going to unfold with all of the changes, but perhaps that's a good thing because then it becomes less predictable.

And I for one, am happy there are no Reeds.

#34 SirPipeWeed

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

I wondering if GRRM is using the series to make adjustments to things he didn't like in the books. How much influence does he have in the show's script?

#35 Pliny

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:53 AM

Arya/Tywin: Considering only what we've seen of these two and their interactions in the show only, Arya fantasizing about sticking a knife in Tywin's neck seems like pushing it. I'm not saying she's thinking of him now as the sweet ol'grandpappy the Mad King took away from her, or that she's forgotten that the Lannisters are her family's enemy, just that Arya's not yet becoming killing machine Arya yet, a this, to me, seemed like an abrupt change from what we've seen of them thus far.

Jaime's Cousin-smashing: it's already been discussed. Every other minute of his on-screen time this week was great. In the end, maybe it won't matter that much, but as I was watching it happen, my gut was saying "this isn't right."

Editing: okay- here's 24 seconds of Sansa/Hound. There were a few other jarring cuts as well.

Sansa's flowering: the dream leading into the discovery, her reaction- brilliant. I also liked Cersei's and Sansa's "heart-to-heart." The line about "you may never love the king, but you'll love his children" always stuck out to me from the novel as a really grounded, good piece of advice woman to woman, for those in a world of arranged marriage. Two nitpicks: Shae is Sansa's new BFF? I just don't see her taking risks for anybody. Also, how did the Hound get to Sansa's bedside so quickly? Was he in the closet? /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Cersei/Tyrion Heart-to-heart: maybe I am really not remembering correctly, but didn't something similar to this occur in one of the books? Maybe Cersei was worrying about Jaime instead, but I seem to remember Tyrion being surprised at her vulnerability, trying to comfort her, and having her recoil, which really hurt his feelings. Or am I dreaming?

Jon/Ygritte: Ghost is noticeably absent. I think I cringed practically the whole time I read any Jon/Ygritte chapters, but the actress playing her is making her likable in my eyes. She's doing a great job. Their storyline, though, is pretty boring so far, and Jon doesn't come off very well. I hope the writers can help him out a bit.

Dagmer: I can't remember who, but somebody posited last week, or the week before that Dagmer=Reek=Ramsay. It kind of blew my mind at the time, but now it's looking like he might be right. Not really a nitpick, but wow.

Dead Bran/Rickon: I'm not sure it was really so different in the books, was it? I mean, essentially? My husband who hasn't gotten that far in the books yet, seemed to know right away that those bodies weren't really Bran and Rickon. I've read a few other examples of non-readers not being fooled. What made it so unbelievable, I wonder? Or maybe their reactions are more of a "nah, they wouldn't really kill off the two kids."

#36 Acetabularia

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

I guess one should start with the positive things first:

I like that they gave Pyat a bigger role, giving the warlocks a really creepy touch. Something I sort of missed in the book. (You have a spooky house, big deal)

Well, the bad stuff...

Tywin Lannister was laughing and smiling, tune in for episode 8 where he will give Arya a piggy-back ride around Harrenhall


Cersei and Tyrion can join them! And then Jaime will put a crossbow quarrel through their guts! Or am I confusing things?

I don't like the change to the Jon/Ygritte/Qhorin arc at all. I haven't found a single redeeming quality about the new arc, and from what it looks like I doubt that they can salvage this. This change is just bad, bad, bad.


I'm not even sure how Qhorin is going to be added in here... I'm pretty sure that the Rattleshirt (where was he by the way?) and the other wildlings would've killed Jon on the spot if Ygritte didn't propose to take him back to Mance, which leads to the Qhorin duel, blah, blah, etc.

And I guess both Rickon and Bran are going beyond the wall... without anyone to tell Bran that he isn't delusional.

And this is for Jon, Rickon and Bran... where are ghost, shaggy dog and summer?

#37 Vandalism

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:04 PM

Look ma, it's the Beanpole that Rides!

#38 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

And this is for Jon, Rickon and Bran... where are ghost, shaggy dog and summer?


We saw Shaggydog and Summer while they were all walking towards the farm.

I think Ghost will come back soon. Doesn't he go off scouting on his own in the book? Jon sees the hordes of wildlings through Ghost's eyes remember, before the eagle attacks Ghost.

The last we saw Ghost was only one night ago I think. Just before they attacked the wildling cliftop outpost, Jon watched Ghost disappear off somewhere. He's slept with Ygritte once since then. Ghost disappearing for a night isn't that much of a stretch.

Edited by Lord Ashford, 14 May 2012 - 12:21 PM.


#39 Maria Underfoot

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

So was any one acting 'in character' in that episode?

We have Jaime killing his cousin for a futile and pointless escape attempt.
We have Jon Snow wandering around Iceland, arguing to Ygritte about what it means to be a virgin, not seeming to care that Ghost and his brothers are nowhere to be seen.
We've got Robb Stark and his holywood romance
Dany and her "I can't trust anyone" ranting
Xaro and his coup
Pyat Pree the dragon stealing dodecatuplet
Cersi unburdening her troubles to her beloved brother Tyrion
Shae threatening random maids to protect her new best friend Sansa.

Um... I guess Theon was acting like Theon so that's a plus.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />
Good job, you've nailed every problem there is with the way they're portraying characters.
I fully enjoyed this episode. I found the Theon scenes awesome (Peter, you've got some competition, cause Alfie is fantastic). Quarth didn't really bother me, though Dany is getting bossier and louder, thus more annoying (who would have thought that possible)

But while entertainment-wise this episode was great, I can't fail to think that they're changing the characters.
Why are they so intent on making Cersei the good guy? And with Jaime killing his cousin so coldly, it's going to be hard to move on with his redemption. Non-readers linger on first impressions, and after this scene I think they'll hate Jaime even more. And I am annoyed because he ought to be liked, because he's awesome.

On a more positive tone: Sansa's flowering was nice
Theon's story is moving ahead brilliantly
Iain Glenn is so handsome. (he's actually made me a Dany/Jorah shipper!!!)
Actress playing Ygritte is really good. (though all that talk about sex and bones and naked girls, was too long.. There are no actual sex scenes and they're trying to replace them by talking about them for more than 5 minutes, when we haven't see Stannis in 5 episodes???)

Edited by Maria Underfoot, 14 May 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#40 Vandalism

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:16 PM

So the Thirteen of Qarth apparently have a really bad security set up. Best city ever my ass.