[Book spoilers] They ruined Robb Stark
Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:03 PM
Let's summarize here. Book-Robb is a boy of 15 (full of raging hormones); he took an injury at the Crag; he heard of his brothers's deaths and is grieving. During all that he is "comforted" by a woman in a moment of understandable weakness. After that happens, he feels honour-bound to marry her. Book-Robb is the son of Ned Stark, and just like Ned, he takes oaths and hononour seriously. He would have never deliberately broken his vow to the Freys like that, and when it does happen, he feels stupid and terrible and tries his hardest to make amends.
TV-Robb: is a man grown (I assume he's supposed to be 18-20?); he is not injured; he has not learned of Bran and Rickon's deaths and is not grieving. He's not in any sort of particular trouble. He even had his mother around to remind him of his duty and his oath to the Freys. Yet he's palling around with some sexy wench and clearly states he doesn't want to marry the Frey girl. He deliberately breaks his vow and doesn't even have second thoughts about it.
What made Robb sympathetic was because he was so much like Ned, and took his oath and his honour so seriously, and he was young and naive, and he actually married Jeyne because of his Ned-like honour as a Stark. There is none, and absolutely none of that in his story with Talissa. Not only is the story contrary to the spirit of the novel, but even judged by its own merit as TV, it's bad. It's a clichéd Hollywood romance with little believability to it. And it takes away a lot of the tragedy of the Red Wedding since Robb pretty much has it coming. Personally the Red Wedding made me upset because of Catelyn's suffering (losing her "last" son) and death more than Robb's death, but by giving more attention to Robb, the TV series could have changed that. Well, so much for that...
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:00 PM
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:25 PM
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:28 PM
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:29 PM
and this is the problem. I wanted to see this story. I wanted to see the story of Robb in the west. But what they came up is just awful. On any show, this plotline would have been terrible.
For Robb, it is certainly against what the book Robb would have done. Show Robb just saw this hot girl on the battlefield and started pursuing her. Which, yknow, would have been fine. It's essentially a different story with many of the characters exhibiting many changes. Buuut, this story is just not good or interesting.
I'd have rather they changed the story to have Robb marry a Frey and not give us a red wedding than, shove this trite plotline at us
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:32 PM
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:34 PM
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:34 PM
What situation with Eddard are you talking about? About Cersei trying to seduce him in the Godswood?
Edited by Buckwheat, 21 May 2012 - 05:36 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:37 PM
That's not the point. Robb could have slept with Jeyne westerling and just left her but because of his Ned like honor he chose to protect her honor over his own.
And yes he broke his vows but breaking them consequently to a moment of very understandable weakness at 15 after hearing his two baby brothers were executed by the person he considered a brother not to mention his own guilt in all that is extremely different from his reasons in the show. " I don't want to marry the Frey girl". Honestly!
Edited by Fantôme, 21 May 2012 - 06:33 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:39 PM
Which happens to be totally inferior. Which is quite a feat, considering Robb didn't even appear in more than one or two chapters of ACoK.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:51 PM
What? No he didn't. In this quasi-medieval setting no one would care if he slept with other woman before the wedding. Few people would care if he slept with another woman after the wedding. He'll break his vow when he marries other woman. Which, in the book, was monumental, suicidal stupidity, and TV Robb won't beat that unless he weds a literal horse.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:01 PM
Keep in mind that he just found out that his mother basically committed treason against him and he really has no one else at the camp to lean on. Also, an 18-20 year old guy is pretty much just as likely to fall prey to those raging hormones as a 15 year old would.
Edited by Godswood, 21 May 2012 - 06:02 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:12 PM
Either way, its the same outcome, he breaks his vows.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:55 PM
But yeah - he's not ruined. Don't agree at all.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:58 PM
of course he did just lecture his mother about betrayals and all, kind of makes his sleeping with Talisa, well sort of funny
Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:09 PM
Edited by David Selig, 21 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:14 PM
With Talisa, we still have an understandable reason for having sex - maybe not as emotionally dramatic as people would like, but still pretty reasonable and realistic in my mind. I'm curious to see whether they stick to the same "for her honor" excuse, though, or if they (for example) have the "news" about Bran and Rickon prompt him to seek solace with the woman he genuinely loves and is shown growing to love.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:14 PM
And if you do think that is a justifiable reason well the wouldn't Neds death suffice. I have the same issue with the Cat releasing Jaimie thing. I don't really see how added deaths in Bran and Rickon change her motivation for releasing Jaimie. I kind of liked putting the immediate danger to Jaimie in as that seemed more convincing for a change of heart. Where they made the mistake was not having Cat bring that up in her defense-they should have done that.
Edited by House Snow, 21 May 2012 - 07:17 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:18 PM
Edited by The Monkey, 21 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.
Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:20 PM
Edited by House Snow, 21 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.