Moments of Foreshadowing 3

[chrisdaw]

Another good foreshadowing is in AFFC Samwell chapter. Sam is walking across the yard to meet Jon carrying two books he runs into Gilly and drops the books. One is the "Jade Compendium" the other is Maester Thomax's "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis, with a consideration on the life and death of dragons". An illustrated picture of Balerion the Black Dread fell in the mud.

I believe this is foreshadowing Sam Slaying a dragon. More likely Drogon who can be considered Balerion returned. Also if you look at the title of the book "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis". is a strange title as the only Targaryen's we know who were exiled would be Visery's and Dany. Aegon and his sisters would have been considered refugees after the doom not exiles. Also the word "apotheosis" (Diety/Gods) is strange because Aegon and his sisters weren't looked at as Gods in Westereos when you consider the problems they had dealing with the faith of the seven. The only Targaryen who has been proclaimed in any diety status would be Dany being called the mother of dragons, Myhsa

I'll throw out another interpretation.

Jade Compendium and the picture of Balerion falling in the mud foreshadows Rhaegal and Drogon colliding and falling to earth/water/swamp together.

To clear up the context I'm meaning, Rhaegal and Drogon in battle against each other, colliding in the air, tangling and falling together. Such an event would have to result in something for it to be foreshadowed, like it resulting in one or both of the dragons or their riders deaths or severe injury and/or the end of a battle.

[sword without hilt]

I'll throw out another interpretation.

Jade Compendium and the picture of Balerion falling in the mud foreshadows Rhaegal and Drogo colliding and falling to earth/water/swamp together.

Its possible, another interpretation could possible be Rhaegal and Drogo being killed by Sam since he's carrying both books and drops them. Also like you said falling to earth/water/swamp together could also mean falling/killed by the old gods (earth/water/swamp).

[Fire Eater]

The moon was a graceful crescent, and it seemed as though he had never seen so many stars. The King's Crown was at the zenith, and he could see the Stallion rearing, and there the Swan. The Moonmaid, shy as ever, was half-hidden by a pine tree.

The waxing moon is symbolic of growth, as Jaime grows during this chapter in ASoS.

The King's Crown could be the Lannisters as they control the Crown, and they are at the height of their power.

Arya fits the Swan.

The Moonmaid could be the shy Brienne whose sigil contains crescent moons and stars.

he watched the Stallion gallop up the sky

The stallion was associated by the Celts with war. Jaime seeing the Stallion rearing could mean the war has reached a hiatus or a brief calm. Jon seeing the Stallion galloping means the war will resume.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Another good foreshadowing is in AFFC Samwell chapter. Sam is walking across the yard to meet Jon carrying two books he runs into Gilly and drops the books. One is the "Jade Compendium" the other is Maester Thomax's "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis, with a consideration on the life and death of dragons". An illustrated picture of Balerion the Black Dread fell in the mud.

I believe this is foreshadowing Sam Slaying a dragon. More likely Drogon who can be considered Balerion returned. Also if you look at the title of the book "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis". is a strange title as the only Targaryen's we know who were exiled would be Visery's and Dany. Aegon and his sisters would have been considered refugees after the doom not exiles. Also the word "apotheosis" (Diety/Gods) is strange because Aegon and his sisters weren't looked at as Gods in Westereos when you consider the problems they had dealing with the faith of the seven. The only Targaryen who has been proclaimed in any diety status would be Dany being called the mother of dragons, Myhsa

It could also just be a blanket foreshadowing that Drogon (Balerion) will be the first to die.

[FittleLinger]

Another good foreshadowing is in AFFC Samwell chapter. Sam is walking across the yard to meet Jon carrying two books he runs into Gilly and drops the books. One is the "Jade Compendium" the other is Maester Thomax's "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis, with a consideration on the life and death of dragons". An illustrated picture of Balerion the Black Dread fell in the mud.

I believe this is foreshadowing Sam Slaying a dragon. More likely Drogon who can be considered Balerion returned. Also if you look at the title of the book "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis". is a strange title as the only Targaryen's we know who were exiled would be Visery's and Dany. Aegon and his sisters would have been considered refugees after the doom not exiles. Also the word "apotheosis" (Diety/Gods) is strange because Aegon and his sisters weren't looked at as Gods in Westereos when you consider the problems they had dealing with the faith of the seven. The only Targaryen who has been proclaimed in any diety status would be Dany being called the mother of dragons, Myhsa

I'll throw yet another interpretation - that the dragons (as a whole) will fail to be effective in winter. We know Rheanys' dragon Meraxes was grounded because of a heavy rainstorm. And this was a huge ass dragon. Now imagine Dany's dragonlings and a heavy snowstorm.

In other news, people have theorized about the "exile and apotheosys" thing in a thread I found very interesting. Remember that the Targaryens went to Dragonstone 100 years before the Doom. I think they were exiled there by the Valiryan freehold. The possible reasons vary - from stealing dragon eggs (as in they were trying to make themselves Dragonlords and they were not supposed to be such) to being anti-slavery as opposed to the strong of the day in Valyria. If we assume the FM had a role in the Doom of Valirya - well, the Targs were spared after all, and we know how big of a grudge the FM had on slavers and dragondlords, one would think that they would kill them as well.

The Targaryen "exile" is one of the most interesting things to speculate about IMO. Good catch on the detail btw.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This isn't in the books, per se, but according to the background information about the Conquest (like where we learn that the Dornish princess defied Rhaenys and Visenya bribed the Arryn king with a dragon ride to get him to surrender), there are swords in the Iron Throne from every kingdom except the North, Vale and Dorne. The former two because they gave in peacefully rather than fight, and the latter one because Aegon never conquered it.

I wonder if, aside from the history aspect, this points to those regions specifically cutting ties with the Iron Throne in the end and doing their own thing, either totally separate or perhaps in the North-Vale alliance (especially if Sansa does marry Harry and/or Robert Arryn survives and forges an alliance with his Tully cousins). By pointedly saying that there are no Stark, Arryn or Martell swords in the Iron Throne, it's almost a way of suggesting that those regions "don't belong."

[chrisdaw]

Another good foreshadowing is in AFFC Samwell chapter. Sam is walking across the yard to meet Jon carrying two books he runs into Gilly and drops the books. One is the "Jade Compendium" the other is Maester Thomax's "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis, with a consideration on the life and death of dragons". An illustrated picture of Balerion the Black Dread fell in the mud.

I believe this is foreshadowing Sam Slaying a dragon. More likely Drogon who can be considered Balerion returned. Also if you look at the title of the book "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis". is a strange title as the only Targaryen's we know who were exiled would be Visery's and Dany. Aegon and his sisters would have been considered refugees after the doom not exiles. Also the word "apotheosis" (Diety/Gods) is strange because Aegon and his sisters weren't looked at as Gods in Westereos when you consider the problems they had dealing with the faith of the seven. The only Targaryen who has been proclaimed in any diety status would be Dany being called the mother of dragons, Myhsa

The Jade compendium may represent AA, suggesting either AA will slay or ride Drogon (to their doom).

[Fire Eater]

the moon rose higher in the sky, and down below the ground the heads of forgotten kings whispered secrets.

I think this foreshadows the introduction of Bloodraven/Three-eyed crow. He was the head of King Aerys I's government, and he speaks only in whispers now below the earth in a cave. He teaches Bran the secrets of the Old Gods and the wood. The moon is associated with the Old Gods kind of nature association.

[Ragnorak]

Another good foreshadowing is in AFFC Samwell chapter. Sam is walking across the yard to meet Jon carrying two books he runs into Gilly and drops the books. One is the "Jade Compendium" the other is Maester Thomax's "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis, with a consideration on the life and death of dragons". An illustrated picture of Balerion the Black Dread fell in the mud.

I believe this is foreshadowing Sam Slaying a dragon. More likely Drogon who can be considered Balerion returned. Also if you look at the title of the book "Dragonkin, Being a history of house Targaryen from exile to apotheosis". is a strange title as the only Targaryen's we know who were exiled would be Visery's and Dany. Aegon and his sisters would have been considered refugees after the doom not exiles. Also the word "apotheosis" (Diety/Gods) is strange because Aegon and his sisters weren't looked at as Gods in Westereos when you consider the problems they had dealing with the faith of the seven. The only Targaryen who has been proclaimed in any diety status would be Dany being called the mother of dragons, Myhsa

Great catch and welcome to the forums.

There are lots of different ways to read this depending on what symbol you tie to the different elements. Sam is a brother of the NW but he is on his way to the Citadel to become a maester. He runs into Gilly who could represent a wildling, but she is also taking Mance's baby into hiding which would be a parallel to Ned with Jon. The black dragon could represent Drogon or it could be a Blackfyre. Mud has some ties to the Old Gods. Jojen specifically mentions it and Arya has a good bit of symbolic mud in some of her chapters too. However you put it together it is nice foreshadowing catch.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Who are the two women (OK, girls) most fiercely and most vocally calling for a Stark King in the North, who at this point is pretty much confirmed to be Jon-in-waiting? Lyanna Mormont and Wylla Manderly.

Who are the two women who gave birth to Jon and/or nurtured him in the earliest part of his life? Lyanna and Wylla.

[Bushido]

Who are the two women (OK, girls) most fiercely and most vocally calling for a Stark King in the North, who at this point is pretty much confirmed to be Jon-in-waiting? Lyanna Mormont and Wylla Manderly.

Who are the two women who gave birth to Jon and/or nurtured him in the earliest part of his life? Lyanna and Wylla.

This is gold even if I don't believe in Northern conspiracy.

[Fire Eater]

Who are the two women (OK, girls) most fiercely and most vocally calling for a Stark King in the North, who at this point is pretty much confirmed to be Jon-in-waiting? Lyanna Mormont and Wylla Manderly.

Who are the two women who gave birth to Jon and/or nurtured him in the earliest part of his life? Lyanna and Wylla.

To that I'll add

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

Jon, unbeknownst to him, is hidden under his bastard identity, Snow.

The last lines of the last Cat POV in AGoT: "The King in the North". The speakers are referring to Robb, but they say the "King in the North" not the "King of the North"; this is a subtle hint to the king situated in the North, Jon.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

To that I'll add

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

I haven't seen that one brought up yet, but it's a legit gem.

All of this stuff compounded just makes it that harder to swallow that so many people still don't think that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son and that he's legitimate.

[alienarea]

I haven't seen that one brought up yet, but it's a legit gem.

All of this stuff compounded just makes it that harder to swallow that so many people still don't think that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son and that he's legitimate.

Like me.

[FittleLinger]

To that I'll add

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

Jon, unbeknownst to him, is hidden under his bastard identity.

The last lines of the last Cat POV in AGoT: "The King in the North". The speakers are referring to Robb, but they say the "King in the North" not the "King of the North"; this is a subtle hint to the king situated in the North, Jon.

That's just... Brilliant. Amazing.

I haven't seen that one brought up yet, but it's a legit gem.

All of this stuff compounded just makes it that harder to swallow that so many people still don't think that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son and that he's legitimate.

Yeah, I mean come on - the above gem by Fire Eater could stand in court alone, even if we had no other clues whatsoever.

[Fire Eater]

Here's another that was found in the Arya re-read threads:

“That’s the real king of this castle right there, older than sin and twice as mean... One time the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.”

The cat is Rhaenys's kitten, Balerion. The cat is called the "black bastard" which could be used to describe Jon as he is a member of the NW. The cat is described as "the real king of this castle"

I see another connection to the Moon and Sun in the scene of Balerion snatching the quail from Lord Tywin, because in ancient Greece the quail was one of the animals sacred to Apollo, a god associated with the sun, and his sister Artemis, a goddess associated with the moon (although, strictly speaking, the Hellene sun and moon deities were Helios and Selene, many other deities were also associated with these two celestial bodies), which given the Stark sisters’ connection with the Moon and Sun, evidently foreshadows that the Lannisters would lose both girls, one in the light of day with the help of a Night’s Watch brother, whose uniform is black like the colour of the cat, and another in the blackness of the night, illuminated only by the moon. On the other hand, a second interpretation leads us to the Lannisters’ initial military defeats at the hands of the Stark-Tully alliance and the capture of their golden boy; for the Roman legions, the quail was a metaphor for valiant fighting and courage in battle, and seeing quails in the field before armies clashed was an omen for victory, so better not to frighten them out of the battlefield or lose them from sight.

And there’s a third foreshadowing for Tywin’s future and that of his House: the quail is a bird with a preference for southern latitudes, and because of that it’s a bird of spring, and a bearer of good luck and prosperity. If you happened to see or catch one of these birds, you had to chant:

Bring me victory, little quail,

Grant me success in my plans,

Guard my steps, warning of dangers.

Shower me with good luck and happiness.

But if the quail resisted and flew away, or you lost it somehow, then what awaited you was neither fortunate nor blissful. Tywin and his House succeeded temporarily, but in the end he didn’t live to see Spring, and his work is in danger of disappearing.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Here's another that was found in the Arya re-read threads:

“That’s the real king of this castle right there, older than sin and twice as mean... One time the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.”

The cat is Rhaenys's kitten, Balerion. The cat is called the "black bastard" which could be used to describe Jon as he is a member of the NW. The cat is described as "the real king of this castle"

Also goes along with this quote in adwd, "He wants to hunt, but what? He did not fear for the direwolf so much as for any wildlings he might encounter. A white wolf in a white wood, silent as a shadow. They will never see him coming." Also goes along with the late comer from the iron born. Jon is going to steal the throne probably because he doesn't like dancing dragons when the others are knocking on the door.

[Fire Eater]

"Send a dog to kill a dog!" he exclaimed.

Sandor may meet up with UnGregor on his trip to protect Sansa, and he will help in killing him. I think it could be by through coals on a brazier into the suit of armor repaying Gregor for thrusting his face into a brazier.

[Viking]

The last lines of the last Cat POV in AGoT: "The King in the North". The speakers are referring to Robb, but they say the "King in the North" not the "King of the North"; this is a subtle hint to the king situated in the North, Jon.

The old Starks are often referred to as Kings of Winter. However, the semantics "King in" vs "King of" has a historical equivalent with the Hohenzollerns before the abolition of the Holy Roman Empire by Napoleon. They were "Graf von Hohenzollern" - Count of the County of Hohenzollern which is in south germany, they were Kurfurst von Markgrafschapt Brandenburg - Elector of the March County of Brandenburg and Herzog von Preussen - Duke of Prussia. For vanity reasons the Hohenzollerns declared The Duchy of Prussia to be a Kingdom and they got away with that because the Duchy of Prussia was outside the Holy Roman Empire (though Brandenburg and Hohenzollern were inside it). They didn't get away with calling themselves kings inside the empire so they styled themselves "König in Preussen" or King in Prussia. They got away with this because the Emperor jelously guarded his right to make kings in the empire but didn't care what rulers outside of the empire did.

To keep the Emperor happy the Hohenzollern didn't call himself King, the just continually pointed out that he had the powers of a king in the duchy of prussia. So when the Emperor assemble the nobles of the empire the Hohenzollern got in line with the other electors, behind any kings that might be there as well.

The phrasing has confused me a bit, but the paralell exists with the North being an indpendent kingdom like ducal Prussia outside the empire/7 kingdoms (well, now 6) and the riverlands being a province of the 6 kingdoms but with a lord paramout that is a king elsewhere.

Historically vassal kings have been problematic, the kings of scotland (before bannockburn) did homage to the kings of england for land they owned in england and eventually lost that land. The kings of england did homage to the king of france for normandie and later gascognie but ended up fighting wars every time the issue came up and they eventually lost that land. The Prussians took over the empire though... so.. dunno what the whole thing means. But when it comes to titles words matter.

Perhaps it means something, perhaps Martin just thought "King in the North" sounded cooler than "King of Winter" or "King of the North".

[Eir]

Who are the two women (OK, girls) most fiercely and most vocally calling for a Stark King in the North, who at this point is pretty much confirmed to be Jon-in-waiting? Lyanna Mormont and Wylla Manderly.

Who are the two women who gave birth to Jon and/or nurtured him in the earliest part of his life? Lyanna and Wylla.

To that I'll add

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

Jon, unbeknownst to him, is hidden under his bastard identity, Snow.

[Countless other insights]

*Sighs* Could someone please develop a phone app of Tze, Apple Martini, Fire Eater, Yeade, Butterbumps! and the rest of you frighteningly sagacious folk? One that turns on when I finish a book and shows me what I missed? I feel like those parts of my brain that are never used start lighting up whenever I visit this thread. It's kind of brilliant.

Going to go back to reading now, but had to say that because damn.