Is Arya meant to be beautiful?

[Florina Laufeyson]

I don't think Arya is truly asexual. I just think that it is absolutely not her priority, because she thinks love is stupid and a weakness. She is focused on her revenge and her survival. Love would be something that would take her away from this path. Besides, she hasn't met a lot of men who would deserve her love, who would match her criterias (someone loyal, strong, etc... Someone like her father). But that is just my personal opinion.

As for sex, it's the same. She has not yet been confronted to healthy sexual relationship. She has seen whores, rape, but not sex with love - except for her parents, but I greatly doubt she was interested in it... And of course the fact that she is way too young to think about boys this way.

So yes, for now, it doesn't interest her at all. I think that she might even have some psychological issues with it, but I think that the more she stay at the House of Black and White (somewhere pretty safe, stable, where she is not confronted with every horrors in the world), the more she will heal her wounds. She will never dream of a perfect love like Sansa used to do in the beginning of AGOT, but she might see it in a better, healthier way. Personnally, I always thougt Arya would consider sex as a way to relax, that she would be more like a one-night stand type of woman. She would fuck boys/men and then move on. That wouldn't mean a lot for her. As for love... I don't know. Maybe if she meet the one ?

And about the topic of this forum, I always thought Arya would grow up into a beautiful woman. I don't think she was very pretty as a child, with her torn clothes, messy hairs and her "long solemn face" (which for me doesn't look very good on children, maybe even awkward). She wasn't ugly like Sansa and Jeyne made her believe, she must have been average, maybe cute, but not beautiful. But I think that the features that looked so weird when she was a child will be the ones that will turn her into a stunning woman (the long face, the grey eyes, chewing her lips, etc...). After all, she's from Catelyn Tully, a very beautiful woman, and Ned Stark (whom I don't remember been said he was ugly), she can't turn bad ^^. And there is of course the few comparisons with Lyanna (I do believe she will look very much like her), and the few times she had been said she was pretty (Ned, Jon, the Kindly Man, Gendry,...).

And I do think that the reason why Ned said she was beautiful, is because he saw Lyanna in her. Bran, in his vision, said he tought it was Arya instead of Lyanna. So maybe Lyanna wasn't very pretty when she was child, like she was at sixteen, but she grew into one of the most beautiful woman of the Seven Kingdoms. So maybe Ned said she was beautiful because he knew she would be later !!!

(I'm sorry if there is any mistake. Please let me know if there is !)

I like this. Im not sure Arya would be one to get bizzay to chill out, but you never know. Shes at the age where girls do start thinking about boys, but like you said, its not a priority. Her priority is survival and revenge. That doesnt mean her eye wont wander on occasion once certain hormones start kicking in.

[ARYa_Nym]

Sex doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with love. She can have no interest in love or romance and have an interest in sex but so far she doesn't.

I think if she doesn't develop an interest within the next two books then maybe one can say that she is.

There were opportunities in Braavos to at least be curious especially when she heard about what Brea was doing with boys. Arya is around many males and females and she was in a relatively stable environment.

[The Killer Snark]

Back in Winterfell her conditions were indeed very stable. She had a number of attractive young men around her of the sort that Sansa and Jeyne were crushing on and wasn't interested in a single one. Jeyne Poole's crush on Theon must have occurred at around the same age Arya starts off in the books.

[LordStoneheart]

She is but more of an striking/northern beauty. Not Dany type beauty and besides Nobody needs that Khaleesi rubbish.

I need that Khaleesi rubbish.

[Of Starfall]

I need that Khaleesi rubbish.

You want people to call you the most beautiful woman in the world? :P

[modbelle]

Ned said Arya looks like Lyanna, and he seems an reliable authority on his sister's appearance. I think in the case of Arya, she is a late bloomer like others have mentioned, and that she reminds me of the tale of the Ugly Duckling. She is the only one other than Jon who has the Stark look, whereas her siblings have the Tully look and seem to be attractive from the beginning. Now, Arya will be a bit different from the other pretty girls in the series, in that she doesn't actually know that she is beautiful. She was called Arya Horseface back in Winterfell, then spent well over a year to two years masquerading as a boy, and few people noticed. Then after no longer being able to hide her identity as a girl, she has joined the faceless men, who had her spend time as the ugly girl Beth. When she has her own appearance she is near horny sailors that seem likely to sleep with anything. My point is that I think Arya will flower/reach maturity, without ever realizing she is pretty. She will be one of the most beautiful women in all the Seven Kingdoms, and think she more resembles Brienne Tarth or that men have gone mad since she last left Westeros. She won't use her beauty. Actually, I think it might end up being hilarious as well as a deadly combination.

[A Man Has Said]

I think of both Lyanna and Arya in terms of Katharine Hepburn. Kate Hepburn was not as classically beautiful as her (stunning!) sister Audrey, not as feminine, taller, lanky even -- and had a long, 'horsey' face. Plus she was quite the tomboy, more interested in sporty things than in gowns and makeup. As a result of both her looks and personality, she got a lot of roles where she was the assertive woman threatening gender roles, 'breaking the glass ceiling' in modern terminology.

Do a web image search on Katharine Hepburn, I'm sure you'll agree that she is quite striking and attractive (though in many of the shots she's dressed in men's clothes.) There's your template for Arya or Lyanna right there, IMO. Not a 'classic' beauty, but beautiful in that ideosyncratic way that often surpasses the 'normal' type.

I don't think Maisie Williams even comes close to the description of Arya in the books. Though she looks a bit tomboyish, she has those big eyes and small chin that are classic feminine characteristics. In fact I think that Maisie is a bit too pretty to be Arya, but I do love her portrayal all the same.

[Marillon]

She started out as a horseface and then blossomed into a pretty woman.

She's like Sarah Jessica Parker combined with Benjamin Button.

That name should never be uttered when talking about beauty :bawl: She didn't blossom in anything either

[HopeForSpring]

I think of both Lyanna and Arya in terms of Katharine Hepburn. Kate Hepburn was not as classically beautiful as her (stunning!) sister Audrey, not as feminine, taller, lanky even -- and had a long, 'horsey' face.

Sorry - can't let this stand. Katherine Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn were not related. Not even born on the same continent. Although your point, that sisters are different, rings true.

Meanwhile, another +1 for Arya being one of those people that grows into their looks.

[Sasha Steelsong]

I think Arya's beauty is the type to blossom over time, whereas Sansa had a more conventional beauty from a younger age. Given that Arya is supposed to look like Lyanna, who was considered beautiful, I think it's safe to say that she'll eventually blossom if she hasn't already.

I agree with this. Arya is the swan in the ugly duckling story, I think she'll be just as beautiful as Sansa (though in a different way) but unlike Sansa will likely not put as much stock in it. Sort of like my impression of Val; from Jon's POV we know she's beautiful but nothing we've seen of her suggests that she would use her beauty as a weapon, like Cersei does to the extreme.

[A Man Has Said]

Sorry - can't let this stand. Katherine Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn were not related. Not even born on the same continent. Although your point, that sisters are different, rings true.

Meanwhile, another +1 for Arya being one of those people that grows into their looks.

Thanks for the correction. Geez, I've thought that for-EV-er! And I'm 60 years old, so that's a long time. :P

[Brewmaster]

I honestly do not get the whole preoccupation with Arya´s looks (given that she does not care all that much on her own) and it leaves me a bit unconfortable if we get the standard Sansa comparison. I sometimes get the feeling that people want her to be extremly beautiful (moreso than her sister) but also ask her to do it without any effort. To me, this sets an impossible high standard which few people (either fictional or real) can achieve

1. Arya's looks are an issue in the story and as such, it's not surprising that it is a topic of discussion here.

2. The TV show made the topic a bigger discussion as some people had in their minds that Arya was "ugly" and thought the actress to cute to be her.

3. While I get the comment of a high standard for "real" people- saying it's too high for fictional people is obviously ridiculous. It's not hard for fictional people to be any manner of impossible, or unlikely things, and in fact the majority of fictional characters are unlikely in one way or another. A fantasy story has fantasy characters...not a shock.

[Elrewin]

I would love to see a scene where someone, after seeing the two Stark girls, come to Catelyn, shake her hand and say "Great job, ma'am. Great job." :D

[Newstar]

I think of both Lyanna and Arya in terms of Katharine Hepburn. Kate Hepburn was not as classically beautiful as her (stunning!) sister Audrey, not as feminine, taller, lanky even -- and had a long, 'horsey' face. Plus she was quite the tomboy, more interested in sporty things than in gowns and makeup. As a result of both her looks and personality, she got a lot of roles where she was the assertive woman threatening gender roles, 'breaking the glass ceiling' in modern terminology.

Do a web image search on Katharine Hepburn, I'm sure you'll agree that she is quite striking and attractive (though in many of the shots she's dressed in men's clothes.) There's your template for Arya or Lyanna right there, IMO. Not a 'classic' beauty, but beautiful in that ideosyncratic way that often surpasses the 'normal' type.

Katharine Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn were not related.

However, I do think that your point is a good one re: Arya/Lyanna versus Sansa's beauty.

Katharine Hepburn was very striking, with a long face, an athletic build, and a preference for androgynous clothing. (Barbara Walters once asked her about if she would ever wear a skirt, and Katharine Hepburn replied "I'll wear it to your funeral." HA! Sounds like something Arya would say.) She was a strong, assertive, outspoken person in real life and she played strong, assertive, outspoken characters (although not exclusively, like the dippy heiress she played up in Bringing Up Baby, an awesome screwball comedy). She was very beautiful, but she's remembered more for her acting and her independent, progressive lifestyle than her looks.

Audrey Hepburn, on the other hand, was beautiful in a very feminine way, as opposed to Katharine Hepburn's more androgynous brand of beauty (more Natalie Portman and less Tilda Swinton). She was tall (5'7") but was very slight. Her facial features were extremely feminine as well: huge doe eyes, small nose, high cheekbones, full mouth. While she had several iconic roles, she's remembered more for her beauty and for her role as a fashion icon and source of inspiration (to Givenchy) than for her acting talent, although in later life when she had stopped acting she was extremely active in doing humanitarian work.

So the Arya/Sansa Katharine Hepburn/Audrey Hepburn comparison is an apt one for different types of beauty. I think with Sansa, just as with Audrey Hepburn, she's defined primarily by her beauty and others' reaction to it. Similarly, with Arya, just as with Katharine Hepburn, though she'll be known as a beauty she won't be defined by it and she'll be known primarily for other things (being a badass).

[Pikachu101]

She was always pretty, but Arya's problem was that she would rather look like a stable boy and have fun rather than look and dress pretty like Sansa

Catelyn said she would be pretty if she made an effort and I agree. If you don't look after yourself people won't see your beauty

[Elrewin]

Ok, so I was rewatching Game of Thrones season 3, and I realized something.

It happens during the fourth episode, when Margaery talks with Sansa. She is telling her the story of her childhood with her cousin Alanna, and it hit me how much similarities there is between hers and Arya's.

The dialogue :

- My cousin Alanna was the most beautiful girl I'd ever seen. When I was twelve, I was all elbows and knees and Alanna looked like a goddess sent to torture me. Pig-face, she called me.

- Pig-face ? That's ridiculous.

- I think it had something to do with my nose. Whenever she passed me in the halls, she'd oink.

[...]

- So what happened to Alanna ?

- Oh, she grew up to be the most beautiful woman and married a handsome lord, and they have darling children and live in a castle by the sea. It's all terribly frustrating.

- I'm sure she's jealous of you now. You'll be married here in the capitole and she will have to come watch and pretend to be happy that you're queen.

First, I would like to show the similarities between Margaery and Arya. In the first place, there is of course the likeness with Lyanna Stark. As it had been pointed out several times, we know that Arya looks like her aunt :

Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her.

And for Margaery, Ned had been taken apart by Renly who wanted to know if she looked like his sister :

A few days past, he had taken Ned aside to show him an exquisite rose gold locklet. Inside was a miniature painted in the vivid Myrish style, of a lovely young girl with doe's eyes and a cascade of soft brown hair. Renly had seemed anxious to know if the girl reminded of anyone, and when Ned had no answer but a shrug, he had seemed disappointed. The maid was Loras Tyrell's sister Margaery, he'd confessed, but there were those who said she looked like Lyanna.

That isn't the only physical resemblance between them : as it is said in the show, Margaery was at twelve "all elbows and knees" - so not very curved. And who else isn't ? Arya, who is said to be "a scrawny little thing", "the size of a rat". So we can assume that Margaery wasn't very pretty at twelve, or at least less than at sixteen. Again, like Arya.

"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

They both grow very not confident about their looks. And there is, of course, the bullying ! Doesn't "Alanna" remind you of somebody ? Somebody who is older, prettier and who liked to make fun of her younger kin ? A clue :

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older ; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near.

Do I need to link the two nicknames ? One is nicknamed "Pig-face" and the other "Horseface", and both had to endure the animal sounds (oink/neigh). And both of them suffered the comparision with their elder ("It wasn't fair." / "Alanna looked like a goddess sent to torture me.").

So their histories are very much the same in this matter. I remember someone saying that Alanna might be a foreshadowing of Sansa's future, but I think it is more the type of girl she would have become if she hadn't endure all the abuses. Remember, at the beginning of the story, she was kind of a brat. She was, for me, the archetype of the cheerleader prom queen, very self-conscious of her value and pretty superior with others less beautiful or from lower class. Even with Jeyne, her best friend, she was very aware of their birth differences :

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly ; Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn't been half his age.

It would have been unkind to say so, however, so Sansa took a sip of milk and changed the subject.

She knows very well what she worths. She doesn't say it out loud, because she is a lady and ladies are gentle, etc, but she thinks it all the same. (I'm not saying she is not nice, because she could have told it to Jeyne - she was her best friend after all, so she was close enough to allow herself that - but choose not to). And Alanna would have been Sansa if her dreams had come true : a handsome husband, pretty children and a castle by the sea. I think the events prevented her to become the arrogant woman Alanna seems to be, because she realized a noble birth is no guarantee of being noble of heart.

Back to the Arya/Margaery parallels. I think that, despite the pain, all the bullying are exactly what made her count on something else than her beauty. As she had been told she was ugly, Margaery had learned to develop others qualities that would make her "lovely", or at least more interesting that the ones who think knowing how to sew, sing, dance, etc are the only values of women. Maybe this "lack of beauty" convinced her, in a way, that she wasn't a real lady so she took interest in others subjects. She had increased her wits, learned how to manipulate people. She liked riding horses (like Arya), and she took great care of her people - like Arya who had always thought squires and travellers and common peoples (cf her friend Mycah) were more interesting than the others highborn daughters. She was a little young to think of their life conditions, but she has always hated injustice so I'm convinced she would have been very concerned with them.

Both of them think a woman is something else than a pretty face and a womb. Margaery had been taught that by her grand-mother, and uses her wits to do what she wants of Joffrey. Arya has always suffered of being a girl, because she couldn't run and climb and fight as she wanted. When Jon notices Joffrey is wearing not only the royal sigil but also the Lannister's, she shout : "The woman is important too !" (talking about Cersei, which is a little ironic because she defends the woman who will destroy her life. But hey, at least it proves than a woman is more than a pretty face.)

Both of them are rebelling against her conditions, even if it's in very differents ways.

So, I may have gone a little off the point but what I want to say is this scene may be the way D&D have found to show that Arya won't stay the scrawny, dirty little girl she used to be in the beginning. In the books, we have the Acorn Hall scene and several people noticing her beauty but, assuming they couldn't do it in the show, they used this scene as a foreshadowing of Arya's future, about her looks. Because Margaery, no matter how skinny or ugly she might have been, has grown up to be the beauty that makes even a mad man like Joffrey become putty in her hands.

[a free shadow]

I am not sure, if this has anything to do with anything, but:

ACoK:

Arya (...) could see a small wooded island off to the northeast. Thirty yards from shore, three black swans were gliding over the water, so serene... no one had told them that war had come, and they cared nothing for burning towns and butchered men. She stared at them with yearning. Part of her wanted to be a swan. The other part wanted to eat one.

ADwD:

His snowy cloak was clasped at the throat by two swans on a silver brooch. One was ivory, the other onyx (...) Arianne touched the pin that clasped his cloak, with its quarreling swans. “I have always been fond of swans. No other bird is half so beautiful, this side of the Summer Isles.”

Arya is in the House of Black and White and the Kindly man is thinking about capitalising on her beauty. And Black and White swans are called the most beautiful. Or something like that :P

[Ygrain]

Arya is in the House of Black and White and the Kindly man is thinking about capitalising on her beauty. And Black and White swans are called the most beautiful. Or something like that :P

... and every swan is at first an ugly duckling :-)

[BearIslander]

It's a rather appalling subject... but I find it unusual in those particular circumstances that Arya wasn't raped on her way to Harrenhal (or later in the castle). It seems like a plot armor given to her by GRRM in order not to horrify the readers too much.

[Wyndalynn]

I really wish Arya would just stay ugly, and STILL be one of the most awesome people in the books.

Why the constant discussion over how puuuurty she is? It's completely irrelevant, and doesn't reflect on her 'value' in the story. Will people feel that she 'wins' if she somehow ends up prettier then anyone else? How shallow and un Arya-like that would be. :-/