[BOOK SPOILERS] Time to seriously discuss Sansa

[Mladen]

The first time I saw Sophie Turner playing Sansa, I was really surprised of how good she is. The girl managed to perform unlikable character (Sansa is quite unlikable in Season 1) with such depth and grace. Her performance was extremely well each season and she brought Sansa`s emotions deftly to life on TV screen.

But, we came to big problems. Sophie managed to do the maximum from minimum. Sansa`s character has become obscenely shorten, emotions were oversimplified, and actress who proved herself quite capable has now become Game of thrones number 1 unused resource. Due to overwhelming bunch of unimportant `cool` characters such as Shae, Ros, Bronn, Sansa suffered the most. For us became more important the next Bronn`s joke or Shae`s and Ros` story. The character that is among top 5 most important characters in the book series has been treated so badly in the TV that you have to ask why.

And as usual, the answer is so simple. GOT TV show needs female perspective. With 2 men as creative directors, bunch of directors and writers, who are almost all men, we got plenty of classic hero type guys like Jon, Tyrion or Robb, and we even managed to dig deeply into some unexplored villains like Tywin, Joffrey and LF. But, when it comes to women, this show has demonstrated certain male POV - you`ll enjoy in dragon Queen, ruthless Queen, a mother, tomboy, and wildling spearwoman. Even sarcastic granny got more time than Sansa. Men`s POV would find boring emotional and psychological evolution of teenage girl.

This season, more than 2 before, we have wonderings of Sansa`s character. Last year, we needed to wait Blackwater episode so GRRM would himself made such astonishing breakthrough between Sansa and Sandor, creating one of the most memorable romantic scenes in GOT. This year, producers are basically stuck. Their golden boy - Tyrion needs to remain Prince Charming of Westeros, and that would be difficult with forced marriage with poor Sansa. This year, every scene she was in, was about someone else - QOT, Margaery, LF, you name it. This year, not even perfect GRRM`s writing could help. Basically, let`s face it, in these 7 episode, Sansa`s storyarc has been utterly destroyed, and unless something is changed in the next 3 episodes, we are facing irreparable damage made to one of the most important characters.

So, what do you think? Have producers managed to deal with Sansa`s story deftly or they failed epically? Did you like Sansa in the 7 episodes of Season 3? Or was it just oversimplified; pointless wondering that basically tired you?

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Well i don't know really, i wouldn't say she is more simplified than most of the other characters. Was she really that much smarter/different in the books at this point? I do agree that most of her scenes are commanded by someone else, but in the books she was no player, and even in her POV chapters, it was kind of the same. The only thing i really am annoyed is how they constantly make a fool of her. I am not one to defend her, but after the last episode's scene where she asks Marg about how she knows all "this", i really was like "yeah she's naive we get it thank you can you please give us a different sansa scene?".

[Lyanna Stark]

Both Margaery and Sansa are unable to understand Westeros inheritance laws in the show as they both think Sansa's sons are first in line for winterfell while robb is still alive.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

Well, they are once Robb's dead so.....

My gripe....did Sansa realize the implications?

For your sons to be the Lord of Winterfell, they will kill Robb. D:

[Lyanna Stark]

Well, they are once Robb's dead so.....

My gripe....did Sansa realize the implications?

For your sons to be the Lord of Winterfell, they will kill Robb. D:

Show Sansa and show Margaery are too dense it seems. Which makes no sense at all unless Robb is secretly going to emigrate to Volantis.

[~DarkHorse~]

I completely agree with you. I liked Sansa in season 2 as you could see her maturing and the naive little girl disappearing but in season 3 she's going back the way- obviously mildly following the book plot but Season 3 isn't portraying the 'my skin has turned from porcelain to Ivory to steel' that well.

[Mladen]

Well i don't know really, i wouldn't say she is more simplified than most of the other characters.

Oh, yes she is more simplified than the rest of the cast. Look, they expanded Catelyn`s motherhood with that monologue about Jaime, Joffrey, Tywin, LF and Varys are shown in greater light in the show than in the books. Theon appeared in every episode this year (or almost every). Arya`s and Jaime`s stories have been following some great motifs from the books. We have more of almost every character, but we got less of her.

Was she really that much smarter/different in the books at this point?

Not that much, but she isn`t standing in one point as she is on the show. We got Loras storyarc and they managed to portray her as naive fool, and in the books, she was more than happy to be with crippled Willas who would be kind to her and who would love her. Then we had her desire to ran away, something that isn`t even shown in the books, except in that conversation with LF. Book Sansa is way more layered than TV Sansa...

Both Margaery and Sansa are unable to understand Westeros inheritance laws in the show as they both think Sansa's sons are first in line for winterfell while robb is still alive.

Oh no just that. It seems like Sansa is either fine with her brother dying, or she is cluelless about implication of her words. I know this episode was written by GRRM, but Sansa never discussed her claim as something important to her. It was always for her: it was Robb`s, not mine.

[Gannicus]

Let me preface this by saying I really wasn't found of Sansa until she left KL. But I don't know what you want from the show runners? I know a lot of Sansa fans are unhappy. IMO Sansa's arc didn't move a whole lot from ACOK through her marriage to Tyrion. In the book it felt like she shut down the outside world. To me that wouldn't translate well to television.

But again how would you play it? How much time would you devote to her character development?

I like Margery more in the show.

[Antonious Stark]

I think Sansa is well played in the series. Yes she may be oversimplified in regards to the book character in all her thoughts and emotions in what happens to her while in KL, but you have to figure the writers and producers can't possibly go into every single detail. Personally I'm a fan of Sansa. She's a character you always end up feeling bad for. So TBH I think they've done a great job with her and her experience in KL in the book is really no different than on the show. She's a pawn in the game and we won't see that much of a change until next season where it ties in with AFfC.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

Oh, yes she is more simplified than the rest of the cast. Look, they expanded Catelyn`s motherhood with that monologue about Jaime, Joffrey, Tywin, LF and Varys are shown in greater light in the show than in the books. Theon appeared in every episode this year (or almost every). Arya`s and Jaime`s stories have been following some great motifs from the books. We have more of almost every character, but we got less of her.

Not that much, but she isn`t standing in one point as she is on the show. We got Loras storyarc and they managed to portray her as naive fool, and in the books, she was more than happy to be with crippled Willas who would be kind to her and who would love her. Then we had her desire to ran away, something that isn`t even shown in the books, except in that conversation with LF. Book Sansa is way more layered than TV Sansa...

Oh no just that. It seems like Sansa is either fine with her brother dying, or she is cluelless about implication of her words. I know this episode was written by GRRM, but Sansa never discussed her claim as something important to her. It was always for her: it was Robb`s, not mine.

Joffrey we see fall for Marg and kill Ros. Jaime is probably the biggest surprise in the third book, so it's only fair it stays that way in the show. Tywin/Marg/Varys/LF all they get is some plotting about who and where marries Sansa. She's a pawn. I just don't know what else could have been done with her character.

[The Boar of Gore]

I agree with you. I'd like to see more character development with Sansa this season and I don't care if she deviates from the books. For someone who's been through what she's been through to revert back to naive girlhood is just not believable.

[The Boar of Gore]

And Sophie Turner has already proven she's got the chops to take on more.

[Mladen]

But again how would you play it? How much time would you devote to her character development?

Well, if you find time to explain us both Varys` and LF`s motivation, not mentioning Ros, Shae, Bronn, Pod, Talisa, Ygritte when you deepen Joffrey, Margaery, Tywin, Robb, Catelyn., when you give full range of emotions and sentiments to Arya, Tyrion, Jon, Jaime, why don`t we get the same for Sansa? She is stuck, because show producers want to show Tyrion as some Prince Charming, and far better choice for Sansa then for instance Loras.

I think Sansa is well played in the series. Yes she may be oversimplified in regards to the book character in all her thoughts and emotions in what happens to her while in KL, but you have to figure the writers and producers can't possibly go into every single detail. Personally I'm a fan of Sansa. She's a character you always end up feeling bad for. So TBH I think they've done a great job with her and her experience in KL in the book is really no different than on the show. She's a pawn in the game and we won't see that much of a change until next season where it ties in with AFfC.

I am fan of Sophie`s work, she is the only reason why Sansa on the show doesn`t suck epically. She draws maximum from very little. The only time I was completely satisfied with writing for her, since season 2 was Blackwater episode.

[Mr Smith]

Not sure if serious...

Seriously, this seems to me to be a fuss over nothing. The way Sansa's character is going is exactly where it should be going. Your claim that she is "oversimplified" is kind of groundless, and you haven't really given any evidence to support it. In fact, a lot of Sansa's S3 scenes have been taken straight from the book, so I really can't see how her character has been simplified. I think Sansa, and Sophie Turner, has been better than ever this season. And as for the rest of the generalisations you've reduced the other characters to, particularly the female ones, I think you're the one thats oversimplifying.

[Aslerys]

Show Sansa and show Margaery are too dense it seems. Which makes no sense at all unless Robb is secretly going to emigrate to Volantis.

That was what I was thinking, Sansa might think that after her wedding they will all be family so instead of killing Robb the Lannisters will "just" exile him and the rest of her family. That will be naive but it seems that they don´t have any problem with making her quite silly.

Sometimes I think that they are doing this because she will have a bigger part in Joffrey's death, they could make her an active part of the plan so it would be a big shock to all the viewers that think she is a silly little girl and it would make her seem " badass". However that will also be quite a change in Sansa's characterization. :(

[Golden Lion]

I'm tired of Sansa.

Last season she seemed to be a lot better at coming to grips with the politics, but this season she's like season 1 Sansa again. All of her development has been back peddled. She's once again openly transparent.

She was a lot better at the game by this point in ASOS. It bugs me that she's written as being dumb and naive again, it's like season 2 never happened.

[Tempra]

Well, they are once Robb's dead so.....

My gripe....did Sansa realize the implications?

For your sons to be the Lord of Winterfell, they will kill Robb. D:

He could take the black or renounce his right to Winterfell as well, no?

[Qhorin Fivehands]

The first time I saw Sophie Turner playing Sansa, I was really surprised of how good she is. The girl managed to perform unlikable character (Sansa is quite unlikable in Season 1) with such depth and grace. Her performance was extremely well each season and she brought Sansa`s emotions deftly to life on TV screen.

But, we came to big problems. Sophie managed to do the maximum from minimum. Sansa`s character has become obscenely shorten, emotions were oversimplified, and actress who proved herself quite capable has now become Game of thrones number 1 unused resource. Due to overwhelming bunch of unimportant `cool` characters such as Shae, Ros, Bronn, Sansa suffered the most. For us became more important the next Bronn`s joke or Shae`s and Ros` story. The character that is among top 5 most important characters in the book series has been treated so badly in the TV that you have to ask why.

And as usual, the answer is so simple. GOT TV show needs female perspective. With 2 men as creative directors, bunch of directors and writers, who are almost all men, we got plenty of classic hero type guys like Jon, Tyrion or Robb, and we even managed to dig deeply into some unexplored villains like Tywin, Joffrey and LF. But, when it comes to women, this show has demonstrated certain male POV - you`ll enjoy in dragon Queen, ruthless Queen, a mother, tomboy, and wildling spearwoman. Even sarcastic granny got more time than Sansa. Men`s POV would find boring emotional and psychological evolution of teenage girl.

This season, more than 2 before, we have wonderings of Sansa`s character. Last year, we needed to wait Blackwater episode so GRRM would himself made such astonishing breakthrough between Sansa and Sandor, creating one of the most memorable romantic scenes in GOT. This year, producers are basically stuck. Their golden boy - Tyrion needs to remain Prince Charming of Westeros, and that would be difficult with forced marriage with poor Sansa. This year, every scene she was in, was about someone else - QOT, Margaery, LF, you name it. This year, not even perfect GRRM`s writing could help. Basically, let`s face it, in these 7 episode, Sansa`s storyarc has been utterly destroyed, and unless something is changed in the next 3 episodes, we are facing irreparable damage made to one of the most important characters.

So, what do you think? Have producers managed to deal with Sansa`s story deftly or they failed epically? Did you like Sansa in the 7 episodes of Season 3? Or was it just oversimplified; pointless wondering that basically tired you?

How at all has her storyline been 'utterly destroyed'?

[Mladen]

Seriously, this seems to me to be a fuss over nothing. The way Sansa's character is going is exactly where it should be going. Your claim that she is "oversimplified" is kind of groundless, and you haven't really given any evidence to support it.

First, have you read the books? Sansa`s character in the time of SOS/S3 is far less naive and shallow than it is represented in the show. Look at her and Loras, look how passive she is about returning home. She was once again depicted as the same girl from season 1, and she isn`t that anymore.

In fact, a lot of Sansa's S3 scenes have been taken straight from the book, so I really can't see how her character has been simplified.

Yes, but seriously rewritten. And a lot of scenes are added. QOT talking about her being dull, Loras` showing how shallow she is, LF`s play with her and finding out about wedding from that good guy - Tyrion. There`s much more to Sansa then it`s shown on TV. And I am not just speaking about her character development being cut, I think this was done deliberately out of anterior motives that include Tyrion.

I think Sansa, and Sophie Turner, has been better than ever this season.

No one is denying her talent. Actually, the best part of TV Sansa is actually Sophie.

And as for the rest of the generalisations you've reduced the other characters to, particularly the female ones, I think you're the one thats oversimplifying.

the generalization was made not to derail main theme, but I can go into each of those characters and how they are seen on TV. On this forum, I am known for many things, but oversimplifying isn`t one of them

[Ser Cookie Monster]

YES, YES, YES. Totally agree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Sansa has been dumbed down! and Tyrion is a knight in a shining armor in the size of a dwarf. I DO NOT like it AT ALL!