since when is Aegon (F)Aegon?

[qhorin_420_hands]

im interested inthe (f)Aegon theories, but at the same time i dont really know any justifiation that he could be fake other than Varys might have taken some random baby and given him Targaryen features. does the theory say that hes 100% fake or that hes a Blackfyre?

tl;dr: someone please explain the (f)Aegon theory to me >_>

[Sordelor]

I think most people think he has fake because Varys has no reason to want real Aegon on the IT, but I still don't really understand why most people think he absolutaly can't be real.

[Ramsay B.]

He could be real but there are just some clues throughout the books that suggest other things. Like in AFFC with the dragon sign coming back red with rust(Blackfyre colors). Illyrio saying red or black a dragon is still a dragon.

The fact that the Golden Company(founded by Blackfyres) broke a contract to back Aegon. There are many threads with way better explanations than I will give.

[Mladen]

im interested inthe (f)Aegon theories, but at the same time i dont really know any justifiation that he could be fake other than Varys might have taken some random baby and given him Targaryen features. does the theory say that hes 100% fake or that hes a Blackfyre?

tl;dr: someone please explain the (f)Aegon theory to me >_>

I think most people think he has fake because Varys has no reason to want real Aegon on the IT, but I still don't really understand why most people think he absolutaly can't be real.

OK, gentlemen, it;s not about what anyone wants, it's about what some people have noticed:

1. Mummer's dragon - Dany's vision in HotU and Quaithe's warning about mummer's dragon (not real one)

2. Moqorro's vision about true and false dragons

3. Illyrio's strange behavior towards boy, and the line that Blackfyre male line has been extinguished, leaving the female line unknown

4. Foreshadowings for the future Dance of dragons, from both ADWD, and TWOW

5. The fact that no one who knew Aegon back than can guarantee his identity. Connington met the boy when he was 5

6. Golden Company was organized by Blackfyre to claim IT. Their legendary reputation is that they have never breached a contract.

7. A bit scetchy story of how he is saved.

[Buried Treasure]

There are many theories. Calling the lad (f)Aegon merely indicates that a poster leans more to one of those theories than to him being the real deal.

The onus should really be on proving that he is real. If I found an expensive watch and posted signs I would not accept that the first person to turn up was the real owner without some basic proof - why not ask the same of someone claming a kingdom? All the proof provided so far is that Aegon has the Targ/ Valyrian look, which given how common that look is in Essos is no more proof than describing the watch as having a leather strap - its still very possible we have an imposter.

There are several variations of the Blackfyre theory but I don' t support any of them. The mechanism for a complete fake is simple enough - Varys identified an opportunity in the way the real Aegon died and Illyrio had 4 years to find a suitable fake. Then they setted on Jon C to raise him, as the man had blinders and would not question too hard that he himself had no actual proof. Why they would do this remains an open question but Varys motivatons have been a mystery from the start and we should not expect that answer til the climax of the KL plot.

[Snow_Shrike]

OK, gentlemen, it;s not about what anyone wants, it's about what some people have noticed:

1. Mummer's dragon - Dany's vision in HotU and Quaithe's warning about mummer's dragon (not real one)

2. Moqorro's vision about true and false dragons

3. Illyrio's strange behavior towards boy, and the line that Blackfyre male line has been extinguished, leaving the female line unknown

4. Foreshadowings for the future Dance of dragons, from both ADWD, and TWOW

5. The fact that no one who knew Aegon back than can guarantee his identity. Connington met the boy when he was 5

6. Golden Company was organized by Blackfyre to claim IT. Their legendary reputation is that they have never breached a contract.

7. A bit scetchy story of how he is saved.

Thanks for the explanation.

The onus should really be on proving that he is real. If I found an expensive watch and posted signs I would not accept that the first person to turn up was the real owner without some basic proof - why not ask the same of someone claming a kingdom? All the proof provided so far is that Aegon has the Targ/ Valyrian look, which given how common that look is in Essos is no more proof than describing the watch as having a leather strap - its still very possible we have an imposter.

I would not be surprised if he were real, because As Varys said, replacing one baby with another is very easy. (Jon Snow did it with Gilly's baby and Mance Rayder's Son at the Wall.) Besides the Blackfyre is a little far-fetched to me. The Blackfyre rebellion was a hundred years ago. That means the distaff side of the Blackfyres has been waiting a hundred years for a chance? Definitely far-fetched.

BTW, "distaff side" is a phrase referring to inheritance from the female line, or to the female line in general. You learn the most interesting things from historical novels...

[ADB]

Since a lot of people read WAAAY too much into a few lines. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would say people are ten times too sure of it.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

A real Aegon damages the religion that's developed around here about Jon Snow being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. It eliminates the "Kingsguard were at the ToJ to defend the King" argument from the R+L=J theory. It also reduces the chance of a reincarnated Jon magically assembling an army and taking the Iron Throne himself. That's why people cling to (f)Aegon. For the remaining Dany fans (I'm always surprised at how few there are), it makes her claim weaker as well, so they're inclined to accept the (f)Aegon theories as well. Personally, I'm not all that interested in whether he's real or not. At this point the only question that concerns me is whether

Arianne thinks so or not.

Joffrey and Tommen are fake and they still sat/sit the Iron Throne. So, Aegon Blackfyre or Aegon of the Pisswater could sit the Iron Throne as long as people accept him as Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of his name.

[Inc4]

Joffrey and Tommen are fake and they still sat/sit the Iron Throne. So, Aegon Blackfyre or Aegon of the Pisswater could sit the Iron Throne as long as people accept him as Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of his name.

Rightly put. If Aegon is (f)Aegon, the only way he wouldn't sit on the throne is by proving he is fake (if you can't prove Joffrey is fake then I really doubt if you can prove Aegon) or he dies by battle. So it doesn't really matter if he is a fake or not. But I'm curious to know what exactly does Varys want?

[Fae Boleyn]

Wait, Blue Aegon being real doesn't demolish the KG being at ToJ theory. That theory relies on the three men believing they were guarding their unborn/newborn monarch. Aegon surviving or not is irrelevant as long as they thought he was dead. R+L=J has no bearing on Aegon.

A lot of the "proof" that he's fake is shaky - mummer's dragon can just as easily mean Varys' dragon (the mummer) which Blue Aegon is regardless. The GC? Were going to break contract for Daenerys and mention an earlier plan involves Viserys. Illyrio's fondness has an obvious explanation - the boy lived in his manse before being sent off with JonCon. A second Dance could well happen regardless of Blue Aegon's true story.

Moqorro's vision I'm not sure of except there's a whole lot of dragons around if we take that whole thing as reliable.

And if the being saved story is sketchy, the Blackfyres just happen to have a baby close in age to pass off as Aegon? Doesn't stop him from being a random impostor but the Blackfyre theory is practically gospel around here.

Basically, most people here think he's fake, hence (f)Aegon but they're not as convincing as they think they are. His identity is a toss up, though tbh I think him being real is far more straightforward and there's enough convoluted plots so him being real would be nice. That and the uproar here would be delightful.

[Sir Lee knot]

OK, gentlemen, it;s not about what anyone wants, it's about what some people have noticed:

1. Mummer's dragon - Dany's vision in HotU and Quaithe's warning about mummer's dragon (not real one)

2. Moqorro's vision about true and false dragons

3. Illyrio's strange behavior towards boy, and the line that Blackfyre male line has been extinguished, leaving the female line unknown

4. Foreshadowings for the future Dance of dragons, from both ADWD, and TWOW

5. The fact that no one who knew Aegon back than can guarantee his identity. Connington met the boy when he was 5

6. Golden Company was organized by Blackfyre to claim IT. Their legendary reputation is that they have never breached a contract.

7. A bit scetchy story of how he is saved.

This on top of the fact that everything about Aegon being real is sketchy. There is a complete lack of evidence for Aegon being real so there is really no reason to believe he is.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

Wait, Blue Aegon being real doesn't demolish the KG being at ToJ theory. That theory relies on the three men believing they were guarding their unborn/newborn monarch. Aegon surviving or not is irrelevant as long as they thought he was dead. R+L=J has no bearing on Aegon.

You're right that it doesn't demolish R+L=J. It does demolish R+L=J making Jon king somehow. Really, if R+L=J doesn't make Jon king, than it's little more than a fun fact and the 81 (and counting) threads about it might be overkill. That's why they can't accept Aegon is real. It's the same reason they can't accept Jon is dead. Both would make Jon's parentage just another question instead of the central question of the books.

[Light a wight tonight]

im interested inthe (f)Aegon theories, but at the same time i dont really know any justifiation that he could be fake other than Varys might have taken some random baby and given him Targaryen features. does the theory say that hes 100% fake or that hes a Blackfyre?

tl;dr: someone please explain the (f)Aegon theory to me >_>

For one thing the kid doesn't necessarily have Targ features. He has Valyrian coloring, but millions of Essosi do, too, in cities founded by Valryia.

Historically there are plenty of Targs that don't show Valyrian coloring, Baelor Breakspear being one example.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

Wait, Blue Aegon being real doesn't demolish the KG being at ToJ theory. That theory relies on the three men believing they were guarding their unborn/newborn monarch. Aegon surviving or not is irrelevant as long as they thought he was dead. R+L=J has no bearing on Aegon.

A lot of the "proof" that he's fake is shaky - mummer's dragon can just as easily mean Varys' dragon (the mummer) which Blue Aegon is regardless. The GC? Were going to break contract for Daenerys and mention an earlier plan involves Viserys. Illyrio's fondness has an obvious explanation - the boy lived in his manse before being sent off with JonCon. A second Dance could well happen regardless of Blue Aegon's true story.

Moqorro's vision I'm not sure of except there's a whole lot of dragons around if we take that whole thing as reliable.

And if the being saved story is sketchy, the Blackfyres just happen to have a baby close in age to pass off as Aegon? Doesn't stop him from being a random impostor but the Blackfyre theory is practically gospel around here.

Basically, most people here think he's fake, hence (f)Aegon but they're not as convincing as they think they are. His identity is a toss up, though tbh I think him being real is far more straightforward and there's enough convoluted plots so him being real would be nice. That and the uproar here would be delightful.

[GallowsKnight]

Also the fact Aegon is introduced in the fifth book in the series. Whereas regardless which one you rally behind Jon Snow and Daenarys have been there from the start.

[joluoto2]

The reason I really doubt Aegon is Rhaegar's son is because I doubt even Varys could have pulled that baby switch off. And why not save Elia and Rhaenys if he was able to get people out of KL unseen?

I believe Aegon might very well be Aegon Targaryen, just not THAT Aegon Targaryen.

[Crow]

One of the main arguments against Aegon Bluehair is the long wait before introducing him to Connington. If you've saved a baby without its mother or someone else equally trustworthy to confirm its identity, you'd need to establish this early to gain some acceptance of the survival or it will seem very suspect (as many readers feel it does). The main reason for a wait being necessary before revealing the survival to even the persons meant to establish credibility would either be to find a suitable child in the first place or to hide an age discrepancy; it's possible to have a child of 6 pass for 5 but not to claim a two year old toddler is really a baby of 1.

[Dorian Martell]

George loves red herrings. We have to wait and see

[falcotron]

Just remember that there are really two separate theories—Aegon is not really Rhaegar's son Aegon, and Aegon is really a Blackfyre. While the second obviously implies the first, the other way around is not true, even if most of the fans and detractors of the theory often forget that.

Most of the evidence provided for fAegon Blackfyre actually only supports fAegon. The red rust, the Golden Company's allegiance, and specifically mentioning only the male Blackfyre line are really the only arguments for the Blackfyre theory, and the first two have obvious alternate explanations. That being said, it's still not zero evidence, and it's not like there's a tremendous amount of evidence for, say, R+L=J either.

Finally, I don't know why people think true Aegon would ruin R+L=J. First, of course, Aegon could easily die. Second, Rhaegar could have declared Lyanna's child his heir. Anyone (presumably Howland) who has solid proof for R+L=J and the wedding that makes him not a bastard could just as easily as easily have Rhaegar's will. Anyone who is going to push a claim for Jon based on R+L=J would almost certainly accept that will, and anyone who rejects the will would almost certainly not have accepted Jon's claim anyway, with exactly one exception: Aegon's own loyal supporters.

[Veltigar]

There is also the Brightfyre theory. Good stuff there, though I might be a bit biased.