sj4iy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Ugh, I should've logged in earlier. I've missed the majority of the discussion. As a Dany and Jon fan, these threads are pretty hard for me participate in because I like them both so much. I defend Dany more though, because she has the most detractors out of the two. To be honest, I'm quite surprised by how much sexism has factored into this discussion... I mean, of course I'm sure many of Dany's detractors do not like her, or think of her differently, because she is a woman, but that's hardly why most other detractors dislike her. However, a major reason why many people prefer Jon is due to the extremity of her character. Let's be honest, her actions, both good and bad, touch upon sensitive topics such as slavery, torture, murder etc. Jon is 'safer' character to like because his chapters are not as morally challenging as Dany's. Another reason people dislike her is because of her 'supposed' change in perception from AGOT to ADWD. It seems clear that Dany is more contemplative, analytic and perceptive in AGOT and ACOK, than she is in ADWD. Personally, I think that this is due to how lost she becomes during ADWD. She's a conqueror and a leader, not a ruler, and this is why she is not able to rule Meereen as effectively. Very well put. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 This 'sexism' argument works both ways. Dany is one of the most popular characters on the show because she is a woman. You know the whole "but we are not men" badass (girl power) remarks and all. If she was a guy, I'm betting she would be judged more harshly, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wasn't Tyrion "mooning about" Shae just as much in ACOS? Plus he spent way more time in her mansion and going there and back at a time of crisis than Dany did about with daario in ADWD IIRC. Yet except me nobody bashes him for it.Congrats, you're a rare and unique snowflake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Yes, actually. Jon saved the Wildlings that Stannis were going to use as arrow fodder, he saved the three thousand people with Tormund, and then Jon attempted to save the thousands at Hardhome (but we don't know what the ultimate result will be from that). He saves Dalla's child from Melisandre, as well. He also saves them all from starvation by taking out a loan from the Iron Bank. The thousands from hardhome and the results of the loan are yet in the future, so those shouldn't be counted. Otherwise I could count the new Yunkish slaves and the Volantinian slave population with Dany as well. Crushing numbers. If you want to compare straight numbers to numbers, you also have to compare the fact that Dany has MANY, MANY more resources at her disposal than does Jon. He's essentially on his own, while Dany has an army and dragons to back up her decisions. Dany was on her own at the end of AGOT. She picked her armies up along the way. If you're going to make that excuse (which is legit imo), than you also need to take the lifetime of bullshit fed by a paranoid brother and the lack of a thorough education into account for Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDTrismegistus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Could it be a "Class" thing? Jon is living at The Wall amongst thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. eating salted meats and stale bread fighting the un-dead, whereas Dany spends most of her story being waited on, worshipped and generally being pampered by slaves(when with the Dothraki) and servants. Aside from that, Jon is trying his best to save thousands of people whereas Day kills loads of innocent people through the pestilence and plagues brought on from her misguided attempt to stop a way of life that she happened not to agree with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 She's a conqueror and a leader, not a ruler, and this is why she is not able to rule Meereen as effective According to her fanbase Dany is a ruler, a conqueror, Azor Ahai reborn, the prince that was promised, the younger more beautiful queen,the stallion who mount the world, slayer of lies, bride of fire Not to mention that she's already the most beautiful woman in the world, the unburnt, mother of dragons, queen of meereen and probably future khaleesi of Khal Jaqho. I would gladly like to hear about how Jon is more cliche than Dany, he isn't a genius swordsman like Loras or Jaime, he isn't described as handsome and his leadership skills are indeed good for his age but nothing special if we look back at Westeros history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wasn't Tyrion "mooning about" Shae just as much in ACOS? Plus he spent way more time in her mansion and going there and back at a time of crisis than Dany did about with daario in ADWD IIRC. Yet except me nobody bashes him for it. He was an effective Hand, that's why. Dany is an ineffective Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The thousands from hardhome and the results of the loan are yet in the future, so those shouldn't be counted. Otherwise I could count the new Yunkish slaves and the Volantinian slave population with Dany as well. Crushing numbers.Why are we comparing statistics here? Both have saved many lives, but Jon had arguably saved people from a more direct consequence (wights, Others), than a Daenerys. Also, the people Jon has saved haven't subsequently died or suffered from enslavement or a plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why are we comparing statistics here? Both have saved many lives, but Jon had arguably saved people from a more direct consequence (wights, Others), than a Daenerys. Also, the people Jon has saved haven't subsequently died or suffered from enslavement or a plague. I call bullshit on that. The others are bad, but so far they don't have nothing on the wise/good/whatever masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I call bullshit on that. The others are bad, but so far they don't have nothing on the wise/good/whatever masters. Being turned into an ice zombie isn't that bad? News to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I call bullshit on that. The others are bad, but so far they don't have nothing on the wise/good/whatever masters. Daenerys was in love with a man worse than the masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Being turned into an ice zombie isn't that bad? News to me. Don't twist my words. I was obviously talking about the numbers. The Masters so far have killed far more people than the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Daenerys was in love with a man worse than the masters.Daario was worst than the Masters or loving him was worst than being a slaver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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