Lord Lannister Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yes, he looks a lot like a Stark but the people I mentioned knew Rhaegar very well, They could have noticed some similitudes between the two (maybe the behavior, or some facial trait...The nose?). Well if his facial features screamed out "Targaryen!" someone at Castle Black would've remarked on a similarity between Aemon and Jon by now I should think. Even if he did have some sort of distinct Valyrian feature, a lot of people at Winterfell and Selmy quietly think Ned had a thing with Ashara Dayne anyways, so she could account for any Valyrian features. if hiding Jon was Ned's primary objective, he never would've acknowledged him or had him fostered by the Reeds or something since they're reclusive as it gets. Instead he raised him as his son in Winterfell. I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing the difference between him parading around at the Winterfell court but somehow being too big an issue for the court at King's Landing. No one, not even Jon himself, has had any cause to suspect his identity isn't what Ned says it is. And it's not like he hasn't been a prominent figure during that time. Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and turning down Lordships of Winterfell left and right. It seems to me that going out of your way to hide the kid is going to get people asking questions more than keeping him around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildfireKing Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Aemon is a very old man, Jon just a boy. Speaking about him, it's a coincidence that the only person that could recognizes Jon's "Targaryeness" is blind? In Winterfell no one knew or saw Rhaegar or other Targaryens. KL is whole another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ned knew robert would have killed Jon if he knew who he was. Even if Ned was fairly confident Jon looks nothing like Rhaegar, jt wasn't worth the risk.Furthermore, I am pretty sure that Robert actually knows that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love. The rape stuff is just a face saving lie. Therefore robert would be hypersensitive to anything that might suggest "Dragonspawn". It could also explain why Ned was careful to keep Jon at a reasonable distance from the King when he was at winterfell. I dont think Robert would have ever gotten a good look at his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManderlysPies Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The problem with taking him south isn't seeing the resemblance to Rhaegar, its his resemblance to Lyanna. Robert knows the Starks, he spent his life with Ned and idolised Lyanna. Where others simply might see Stark, he'll see Lyanna. A few cagey responses by Ned about Jon, followed by some more of Neds honourable, respectful behaviour and Robert would have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah but Ned also has the feature Lyana had and he is Jon's purported father so it's not like anyone would be surprised Jon looks like a Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Because no self respecting Lord would take his bastard to Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The problem with taking him south isn't seeing the resemblance to Rhaegar, its his resemblance to Lyanna. Robert knows the Starks, he spent his life with Ned and idolised Lyanna. Where others simply might see Stark, he'll see Lyanna. A few cagey responses by Ned about Jon, followed by some more of Neds honourable, respectful behaviour and Robert would have known. Not really. It is not uncommon for a person to look like an uncle or aunt. I can't think the reason would be physical features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Aemon is a very old man, Jon just a boy. Speaking about him, it's a coincidence that the only person that could recognizes Jon's "Targaryeness" is blind? I've wondered this before, definitely. And Aemon has compared Jon to do different (good!) Targaryen kings, Daeron II and Aegon V. So even subconsciously, Aemon sees his own family in Jon. It doesn't even need to be a matter of Jon looking like Rhaegar in the face. He obviously doesn't. But there are other ways to resemble someone besides the face. I think the books imply that Jon and Rhaegar share similar builds, for instance. There are also certain mannerisms and whatnot that can jog people's memories. And even if no one immediately puts together who Jon really is, it's clearly in Ned's best interest to not bring him to the capital and take that kind of risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Jon not having noticably Valyrian hair or eye color is irrelevant. If he is Rhaegar's son he has some features that resemble Rhaegar. Even the dark nature of his eyes could be from Rhaegar, even if the color is not typically Targaryen. There is more to hair and eyes than color, and there could be resemblance there. Cheek bones, nose, ears, texture of hair, there are all kings of things on the head and otherwise that could favor either parent. Tywin, Jaime, Barristan, Varys, and who knows how many others in KL knew Rhaegar personally, and spent some amount of time with and around him. Someone would have put two and two together eventually. Rhaegar and Lyanna together for months is recent history, and the furthest thing from a secret, even if the details are currently a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sooner or later someone will start making rumors about him( for one reason or other- see how situation necessitated Patchface Selyse affair rumors). Someone will hit the truth, and then Jon will be in danger from Robert. Speaking of Robert, Ned would find it easier to live the lie if he do not have to deal with Robert and Jon on an everyday basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingWITHcersei Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 tucked away safely at the wall? If the maesters really wanted to protect Jon they could have all conspired to pretend he was really really academically brilliant and that it was critical he was sent to old town. "can you fit this block on this hole? OH MY GOD HE IS A PRODIGY"You misunderstand me. Not tucked away for his safety but tucked away bc they do not want anyone with Targ blood running around the seven kingdoms. Like I said previously that's if he's a Targ and if the Maesters are aware of it. If both of those are true the Maesters would probably prefer to kill him but as the son of the Warden of the North the Wall was their best option.I don't buy any of the explanations that say Ned didn't take him south bc of how he'd be treated. Yes he said that but Ned didn't think about it at all really. As soon as Jon was brought up, by Luwin I might add, Luwin broke into the conversation and claimed Benjen had come to him about Jon joining the NW. It's certainly possible that Benjen did speak to him but Benjen immediately threw water on the idea when Jon brought it up. I think it's quite likely that Benjen never spoke to Luwin at all and he brought up the idea either bc he knows Jon is part Targ or bc he suspected Jon was. Doesn't matter if he is or not only that Luwin thinks he is or could be. The notion of Aemon joining the NW to protect Egg took on a new light after tWoiaF. After reading it I didn't get the impression going to the Wall was Aemons idea or that he was nearly as eager as he made it sound when telling his story to Jon. My point being is the Maesters have a history of doing all they can to cull Targs from the herd. If Luwin knows Jon is or may be a Targ suggesting he gets sent to the NW is exactly what we'd expect him to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satin fetch me a cock! Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I don't think fostering him to another house was a realistic option because of his age and more importantly, because Ned knew he was about to take on a capable enemy in house Lannister and the fostering house could be convinced to turn on Ned and use Jon as a hostage if push came to shove.I haven't read AGOT in years but did Ned keep Jon away from Robert during his visit to WF? I don't think Ned thought anyone would guess that Jon was Rheagars by his looks but rather didn't want Jon to peek anyone's interest in KL. If someone like Varys started asking questions and tried to find Jon's mother, they would see that his story about Jon doesn't add up. Ned was able to control the information in Winterfell but he wouldn't have that luxury anywhere else, especially KL. He couldn't stay in WF because of Cat so the Wall was the only real option.BTW... I would have never thought "why" for a lot of stuff that happenedin the books if it wasn't for this dang forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrewal Halfaxe Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Cuz he's a bastard... :y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Also, isn't the Wall the only place Jon could've gone to? There are three places he could have gone: 1) Stay at Winterfell 2) Go to KL with Ned 3) To the Wall. And of course, the plot always had something to do with it. 4) Send him to stay with Howland Reed. (Plot reasons is the real answer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Read the 2nd Catlyn POV chapter from the first book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Wolf Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I haven't read AGOT in years but did Ned keep Jon away from Robert during his visit to WF? He did. Or at least Cersei thinks as much. In AFFC, she says “I glimpsed him once at Winterfell,” the queen said, “though the Starks did their best to hide him. He looks very like his father.” (Chapter 17 -- sorry, don't know how to quote it better) In AGOT we see him excluded from a lot of things (the feast, that hunt that takes place when Bran falls, sword practice, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablius Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Jon wanted to go to the Wall, it solved many problems (besides being part of the plot that can be whatever GRRM want it to be) But whitin the confines of the fantasy, assuming R+L=J: - It is what he wanted, if somewhat cruel since he had no proper idea of what it entailed, it is difficult to imagine Ned allowing Bran or Rickon to go to the Wall without trying to show them what it was about first- It kept him away from Cat- It kept him more or less safe and close to a loving relative (Benjen), until that point no one knew for certain the other were on the march, there were no more dangers at the Wall than as a squire somewhere else, it was a harder life than at a castle, but no more dengarous- It kept him as far as possible from anyone that could inquire about him too much- It gave him a place in the world that didn´t conflict with his "siblings" or the realm as a whole, since it implies resigning everything you were in Westeros society It was a bit cruel, but there were many reasons for Ned to believe he was fulfilling his promise to Lyanna, even if you think that at an unconscious level he was just dumping him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKyrd Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 In addition to placing him in front of people who would recognize his Targaryenness, there's also the possibility Robert gets his memory jolted and sees too much of Lyanna in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendubz Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Excatly, taking Jon to KL would be walking him into the lions den.Literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Seed Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 In addition to placing him in front of people who would recognize his Targaryenness, there's also the possibility Robert gets his memory jolted and sees too much of Lyanna in him. Robert having his memory jolted is a great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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