[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[Gabriele]

 

29 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

I  Well said, couldn't agree more. There are innumerable stories aimed at children that demonstrate better continuity than this show.

Because kids call you out on contradictions. "But the prince had brown hair when you told the story last week."

[Ruhail]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

And Brienne is connected to Jaime, not Sansa. She's finding Sansa for Catelyn and for Jaime. She says so in the show, in Oathkeeper. And she says so in the books:

"I have to find the girl. I have to find his honor."

And all of this, too.

Turner keeps saying she's her BFF forever and will always be true to her no matter what. But that's bullshit.

In the books, when it came to killing Jaime or dying, BRIENNE CHOSE TO DIE.

When it came to protecting Sansa or killing Stannis, BRIENNE CHOSE TO KILL STANNIS.

Now contrast that with Sandor. Show and books, he put Sansa first. Always. He said so.

When it comes to protecting the king or Sansa, I WILL CHOOSE YOU, HE TOLD HER. AND HE DID.

He told her he would commit treason for her. While looking at her like this. This is their story.

[HairGrowsBack]

1 hour ago, LadySoftheart said:

 Also, you are just giving me leave to quote one of my favorite Brienne things EVER.

As you say, THIS IS ALL ABOUT JAIME - the promise to Jaime comes first in her confession to the Elder Brother, and when she's actually speaking, IT IS ONLY THE PROMISE TO JAIME that she mentions, and that she has to try to save Sansa or die FOR JAIME. (The bold about the tub is my own  because Brienne is so clearly confessing her lustful thoughts to what is essentially a priest. Awww, Brienne, I love her soooooo much!!)

So everyone who tries go with the idea that the connection is to Sansa - no, again, Sansa is the object of Brienne's quest - she's never even met the girl, after all. And the quest is to keep her oaths - to Jaime and to Catelyn. THOSE oaths are the things Brienne sees as so important that she is willing to sacrifice her life to make them happen. 

https://media.giphy.com/media/hppWdK8gcmzXq/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

Now to the bolded :  Brienne is a lusty wench, it is known. Jaime even comments on how "they have lusty wenches in the RL" 

[Sir Loin Steak]

1 hour ago, TepidHands said:

Hey! A scene filmed in darkness where you could recognize everybody in it! 

Barry Lyndon was a period film set in the 18th century and made during the early 1970s; through some serious effort and ingenuity Kubrick and his crew managed to film the interiors using only natural light sources. They succeeded magnificently and managed to evoke the feel of paintings from the period.

Obviously I don't expect Kubrick level perfectionism, or anything even approaching that (I'm actually now trying not to imagine how amazing that would've been). But there's been over forty years of technological progress since Lyndon was made, and as they like to keep reminding us, this is the most expensive television series of all time - I don't think it's unreasonable to want better cinematography than what we are getting.

The show is not particularly well lit, but they compound the problem with their extremely heavy-handed approach to digital colour correction and grading (this is actually a blight on modern film-making in general imo). It's not technically incompetent as the show generally looks consistent, but it gives a very synthetic standardised look, and it crushes colour and detail (I also expect it will make the show look very dated in years to come). The latter in particular is a real shame as a lot of the production work, set dressing, locations, digital mattes, etc. are of a very high standard, especially for a tv show and this aesthetic works to their detriment.

[Johnston]

On the Fansa/Brute Riverlands/North (Sorry too lazy to quote everyone)

 

What if Batfinger comes across them, convinces Fansa to tell the Brute to Pee off and that's where the Episode title 'Oathbreaker' comes in?  Maybe by pointing out the Lannister sword etc

Either Fansa breaking her oath to the Brute or maybe the Brute breaking her oath to Fansa.  Maybe because she doesn't agree with joining back up with Batfinger so buggers off. 

 

and thats how Fansa ends up in the North and Brute in the River Lands. 

[CrastorsLivingSon]

I made the mistake of responding in a couple other threads.  My head hurts from the rationalization of some people.  I really want to remain level headed and try to break it down.  But it is like explaining to my 3 year old why she can't have ice cream at 930 on a Tuesday.  

 

[SuperMario]

Has anyone drank enough and been able to stomach the After the Thrones follow-up show? I haven't been able to force myself to do it, so I was just wondering how bad it is.

[TheNorth]

11 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Has anyone drank enough and been able to stomach the After the Thrones follow-up show? I haven't been able to force myself to do it, so I was just wondering how bad it is.

No, but this is how I imagine them justifying themselves and trying to convince people it makes sense

 

[bemused]

12 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Has anyone drank enough and been able to stomach the After the Thrones follow-up show? I haven't been able to force myself to do it, so I was just wondering how bad it is.

Pretty bad. It's a shame because I used to like some of Greenwald's unsullied written reviews.. but there was really not much insight here... Mind you I expected that the first show, at least, would be fairly gushy, so I was willing to give some leeway... Let's just say I won't be watching to see if it improves.

For me part of the torture is the long clips.. having to relive scenes that never should have been and hearing them praise the very things I hated about them.. I'm not that much of a masochist.

What the flick is still the best post-show discussion, IMO.

[SuperMario]

I'm sitting at my office listening to two Unsullied in the cube next to me talk about the first episode of season six and how much they love it. I actually heard one of them talk about how much they love the Sand Snakes.

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

46 minutes ago, CrastorsLivingSon said:

I made the mistake of responding in a couple other threads.  My head hurts from the rationalization of some people.  I really want to remain level headed and try to break it down.  But it is like explaining to my 3 year old why she can't have ice cream at 930 on a Tuesday.  

I can't fathom the show apologists. I guess, to their credit they put a lot more effort into trying to rationalise the show than the writers did.

The people who hold views along the lines of those expressed in the rant threads are a small minority of the audience. It's made up of people who are or were heavily invested in the books and/or the show (contrary to the belief that it's only rabid book fans there are definitely show-only people who recognise the nose-dive in quality) and care enough to keep critiquing and criticising it, whereas I think the more typical response for someone disenfranchised with the show is to simply drop it and stop thinking about it. Of course the key to enjoying the show is also to stop thinking about it, while somehow keeping one's eyes focussed in the general direction of the tv. Personally, I'm not able to enter that state of living death but evidently a lot of people manage it.

I think the main thing that show apologists don't understand about our complaints is that it's not blind hatred, it comes from wanting the show to be done well, from seeing the potential squandered, from seeing obvious problems that could've been easily fixed or avoided with just a little thought, from wanting an adaptation to reflect the things we love about the source material, and so on. Unfortunately, fanboyism blinds them to this and creates an us vs them mentality.

42 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Has anyone drank enough and been able to stomach the After the Thrones follow-up show? I haven't been able to force myself to do it, so I was just wondering how bad it is.

I think that would literally kill me.  EDIT: I assume this is the Thronecast equivalent?

[Sir Loin Steak]

1 minute ago, SuperMario said:

I'm sitting at my office listening to two Unsullied in the cube next to me talk about the first episode of season six and how much they love it. I actually heard one of them talk about how much they love the Sand Snakes.

 

I've had this at happen at work, on public transport, in the supermarket (let alone the deluge on social media); even between seasons. It's impossible to escape the show.

[Tijgy]

And this is a must read: an article about the difference of violence between ASOIAF and GOT (something we ranted several times about): 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11518166/game-of-thrones-violence-books-vs-show-dorne

Some fragments: 

Quote

 

The genius of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire isn't his prose — which is often rote — it's his world building, and his ability to craft a story in which every action has consequences and carries thematic weight. No act of violence just happens — it is caused, and that in turn causes more.

HBO's adaptation of the series maintained much of this violence critique in its earlier seasons, letting characters opine at length about the Mad King and Robert's Rebellion to provide the context viewers needed. But as we've plodded into the later seasons ofGame of Thrones, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss seem to be abandoning this throughline. The shift is making a complex and thoughtful story into something of a boring, pedestrian gorefest.

(...)

That weight isn’t felt in the show, and nowhere is Benioff and Weiss' betrayal of this idea more clear than in the universally despised Dorne plot.

(...)

This big change in the new seasons belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the books' take on violence. Many of the show's big violence set pieces — season five's climactic battle at Hardhome, the back alley showdown between Barristan Selmy and the Sons of the Harpy, Daenerys feeding her enemies to her dragons — aren't drawn from the text. Glamorized fight scenes like the Battle of Blackwater and the sack of Astapor are few and far between in the books (though admittedly, some specific acts of violence are markedly nastier). Silly action-movie sequences are just sprinkled over the story like confetti, for the sake of "good TV."

These bonus "fire and blood" sequences are delivered to viewers at the expense of more nuanced storylines. Most significantly, Game of Thrones, so far, has shown nothing of Brienne of Tarth's story from the fourth book, A Feast for Crows. It's tangential to the main story, and short on action (except for the part where a chunk of her face gets bitten off!), but it's the thematic crux of the novel.

(...)

That's true, but Game of Thrones is barreling head over heels right now. Watching feels more like a race to get somewhere — to finish the episode's dozens of lightning-fast scenes, suck out their plot marrow, and debate who's ahead at the end of each weekly installment. It's like the fourth season of Vanderpump Rules up in Westeros, which makes it high in drama, but low in heart. Including Brienne's relatively slow-moving story might have given the show back some of that vital organ, rather than the mounds of viscera it already spills.

(...)

Instead, as its main rebuke of violence, the show offers us a miserably cheesy speech from Daenerys, who intends to "break the wheel" of power that crushes "the people on the ground." Never mind that people start spontaneously slaughtering their neighbors in every city she sets foot in.

I'm still watching, but now I'm just chanting "fire and blood" and "Sansa, kill all men!" like I'm watching a bloodsport. I don't consider Game of Thrones much more than that anymore.

 

 

[Sir Loin Steak]

6 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Game of Thrones, so far, has shown nothing of Brienne of Tarth's story from the fourth book, A Feast for Crows. It's tangential to the main story, and short on action [...], but it's the thematic crux of the novel.

But of course, "Themes are for eighth-grade book reports", we can't have them cluttering up the story sequence of unrelated plot points like that. Think of how many shots of tits & dragons we'd lose out on! They might even have started examining the concept of revenge instead of substituting every character's motivation with it, then where would we be?

[Le Cygne]

23 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

And this is a must read: an article about the difference of violence between ASOIAF and GOT (something we ranted several times about): 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11518166/game-of-thrones-violence-books-vs-show-dorne

Some fragments: 

 

... there's no evidence that Benioff and Weiss think there's anything valuable to be gleaned from nuance...

I'm still watching, but now I'm just chanting "fire and blood" and "Sansa, kill all men!" like I'm watching a bloodsport. I don't consider Game of Thrones much more than that anymore.

Sansa, kill all the men! Or we can chant, Boss Ass Bitch!  

[bemused]

Excellent article.

"Sansa, kill all men!".... The other night , my sons and I were  saying it's as if the GOT women had Bender from Futurama whispering in their ears..  "Hey, foxy mama... wanna kill some humans men?"

[OldGimletEye]

27 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

... there's no evidence that Benioff and Weiss think there's anything valuable to be gleaned from nuance...

I'm still watching, but now I'm just chanting "fire and blood" and "Sansa, kill all men!" like I'm watching a bloodsport. I don't consider Game of Thrones much more than that anymore.

Sansa, kill all the men! Or we can chant, Boss Ass Bitch!  

Maybe Boss.Ass.Bitch and Bruty will have some kind of relationship where Boss.Ass.Bitch is kind of like Don Corleone and Bruty is like Luca Brasi, but where Don Corleone and Luca are in some kind of romantic relationship.

Perhaps, Boss.Ass.Bitch and Bruty will go on drive by shootings together, killing Boltons and all men.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

And this is a must read: an article about the difference of violence between ASOIAF and GOT (something we ranted several times about): 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11518166/game-of-thrones-violence-books-vs-show-dorne

Some fragments: 

 

I love how the end of this excerpt basically points out that the tv show has become one long Coliseum spectacle, complete with the immoral Romans as the audience, barely paying attention to the show, much less caring about the participants or the outcome.  

[Le Cygne]

13 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Maybe Boss.Ass.Bitch and Bruty will have some kind of relationship where Boss.Ass.Bitch is kind of like Don Corleone and Bruty is like Luca Brasi, but where Don Corleone and Luca are in some kind of romantic relationship.

Perhaps, Boss.Ass.Bitch and Bruty will go on drive by shootings together, killing Boltons and all men.

Boss Ass Bitch makes Bruty an offer she can't refuse.

(Although it's sacrilege to think of Sophie Turner and Marlon Brando in the same sentence.)

[Tijgy]

I really love the article because it touches upon what in my eyes is the main problem of the show: the constant glorification of violence, especially if you remember GRRM actually wanted to give a completely other message. 

And this has actually as result that it just exists from one shock moment to another moment, from boobs to boobs, from dragons to dragons, ... with actually no real content. This might be a successful formula for (short-term) popularity and commercial success but it has as result the quality of this show has become completely non-existent.