[SPOILERS] The Valonqar

[father of craster]

This may have already been covered (I didn't look too hard), I believe Jaime to be the Valonqar the Frog prophesied to bring down Cersei. Bare with me, I promise it will make sense, at least on the crapshow D&D have put together. What follows is my chain of logic.

1. Maggie says that Cersei "will die at the hands of the valonqar." "Valonqar" being the High Valyrian word for "little brother". Jaime and Cersei are twins, however, Cersei came out first making Jaime the younger.

2. Jaime is known as the "Kingslayer" for slaying the Mad King. While it is widely believed to be at the order of his father, we know it was actually an act of conscience. Aerys had stockpiled Wyldfire all over King's Landing, with the intent to burn it to the ground, if he couldn't hold it. Before the King could give the order, Jaime killed him.

3. (Speculation) Tyrion set the guild to making Wyldfire for use during the Battle of the Blackwater. While preparing for the battle, the guild found Aerys stockpiles spread throughout the city. While it is implied that they used all of it during the battle, I find that hard to believe. The guild being what it is, a bureaucracy, they would have never used all of it. I doubt even a fraction of it.

4. (Educated guess) Cersei has Qyburn doing something secret. At this point we don't know what that is, but I feel it's pretty obvious she set him to find out about the Wyldfire. In the latest episode, "No One", she asks him if he found it. He says he did.

5. Cersei no longer has anything left to lose. She has been stripped of everything that she values. Joffery, dead. Tywin, dead. Myrcella, dead. Tommen has been seduced by the faith and is lost to her. Jaime has been crippled and no longer has the ability to defend her. She is not the type of person to go quietly, but in a blaze of fire.

6. NO trial by combat. Face it, that was her last chance to get out of this mess with anything. By the King's decree, she now has to face a trial of the faith. She doesn't have a slim hope of winning that trial, by her own admission to the faith, she's guilty.

7. Riverrun Siege is over. With the end of the siege, Jaime is headed back to King's Landing.

8. Spite and vengeance. (Speculation) Whether it is before, during, or after the trial, Cersei will attempt to give Qyburn the order to light the fire. While it is just as likely that she only intends to burn the Sept, if not MORE likely, she may want to burn it all. Either way, Jaime will stop it.

9. Jaime's entire life has been misunderstood. While he is revered and reviled for killing the King, what only one person knows, is that he actually saved thousands of lives. Much like his sister, he also has nothing left to lose. The only thing left in the world that he cares for, is his sister. What he has yet to realize, is that the feeling is not returned to him. He loves Cersei WAY more than she loves him.

All of that leads to the following conclusion.

Jaime will arrive just in time to try and take Cersei away. She won't go. During the argument, Jaime will learn of her plot to burn the city, or Sept, and kill her. Thus fulfilling the Frog's Prophecy.

He will either then die at the hands of Sir Strong, or his own.

 

[Ser Gareth]

The obvious answer is Jaime.  There are many who feel it would be too standard for GRRM to pull such a thing, but in reality the obvious answer in the books is Tyrion.  So by making it Jaime it is a shock for 99% of people who don't analyse the books/show as much as people on this forum do.

1 - We know Cersei came out of the womb first so that does literally make Jaime her younger brother.

2 - Arryk & Erryk provide historical foreshadowing.

3 - I think it was Cersei that stated that her and Jaime will go out of this world the way they came into this world, together (and in each others arms IIRC).  Again more foreshadowing.

What I personally find interesting is that people think it will end in a noble act by Jaime.  I am not so sure.  It could well be Cersei is already mortally wounded and Jaime gives her mercy and then takes his own life for example (would be ironic if it was jumping out of a tall building after what happened to Bran).

If it is a noble act I don't think it will be to stop the burning down of King's Landing though.  More likely Cersei will get her hands on one of the Stark girls and/or Brienne and to Jaime has to choose between his now completely mad sister who has burned down King's Landing and his vows.

 

[Warsaw]

I've always been torn between Arya and Jamie for the valonquar position, but with everything that's been going on  with the show (the flashbacks, the wildfire, Jamie's story, etc) I think we have a winner.

[Winter's Cold]

Melisandre said she had a vision of Arya closing green eyes in the show. That indicates that Arya will definitely kill a Lannister. The main candidates are Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion. Cersei is the obvious choice since she's on Arya's list. Arya currently does not have a reason to kill Jaime or Tyrion. Jaime has also been transformed into a character who's on Cersei's side no matter what she does. Tyrion has never been a direct enemy of the Starks and he has even helped them in many cases. That's why I view Arya as the person who will most kill Cersei.

Arya also has unfinished business in King's Landing. Arya needs to retrieve Widow's Wail, the other half of Ice. Thus, Arya killing Cersei, grabbing Widow's wail and heading North is an arc that can happen next season.

[Warsaw]

20 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

Melisandre said she had a vision of Arya closing green eyes in the show. That indicates that Arya will definitely kill a Lannister. The main candidates are Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion. Cersei is the obvious choice since she's on Arya's list. Arya currently does not have a reason to kill Jaime or Tyrion. Jaime has also been transformed into a character who's on Cersei's side no matter what she does. Tyrion has never been a direct enemy of the Starks and he has even helped them in many cases. That's why I view Arya as the person who will most kill Cersei.

Arya also has unfinished business in King's Landing. Arya needs to retrieve Widow's Wail, the other half of Ice. Thus, Arya killing Cersei, grabbing Widow's wail and heading North is an arc that can happen next season.

As I said, I've always thought Arya can be tha valonqar, but what Melisandre said isn't evidence at all. She says "brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes". That means nothing. Lots of people have green eyes, and she says that as a sign that Arya will kill many people; that's all.

As for what you say about Jamie... well, I don't know if you've read the books, but I guess it doesn't matter at this point. But if the wildfire plot theory is real (and I really think it is), then you are mistaken.

It breaks my heart just to think about Ice, but I don't think they're forging it back together =(

[thehandwipes]

Well I'm in the minority on the valonqar prophecy in that I think it will be Tyrion, the choice so obvious no one will expect it.  Maggy the Frog's prophecy are the most clear cut examples of self-fulfilling prophecy in the story.  Not to mention destructive self-fulfilling prophecy.  Other than fathering Robert's unknown number of bastards and arranging the marriage in the first place, Cersei is responsible for everything that Maggy prophesied.  Starting with the murder of Melara, who actually suggested if they never speak of what happened, none of it would come true.  I think this is GRRM's way od suggesting that the prophecy works like holding a cross up to a vampire.  It only works if you believe.

If Cersei had not pushed her friend down a well the spell would likely have been broken and she'd have no reason to be haunted, etc, etc.

Cersei could give Jaime a great reason to want to kill her, but she's spent her entire life giving Tyrion a reason to want to brutally kill her precisely because she thought Tyrion would brutally kill her.  

I also think Cersei arc is a warning to the reader about the destructive nature of prophecy since much of Jon and Dany's story will revolve around their growing belief in the power of prophecy, a dangerous belief that could lead them to make mistakes.

And just to make that point a little clearer GRRM ends AFFC on Maester Marwyns warning: "If you believe in prophecy someone will bite your dick off."  The whole way that the narrative unfolds makes me believe GRRM is warning us that believing in prophecy is dangerous.  And not simply because you might guess wrong but because you're empowering a kind of spell over you.

 

[MakeThemBurn]

The show pretty much confirmed that it will be Jaime. They have never been able to pull of subtle hints due to limited minutes and at times due to mediocre writing. With all the visions of Aerys and wildfire ending up with Jaime saving the day and the way they are setting Jaime up as a big sister lover at the moment hints strongly that they are trying to create a shocker for future episodes. Cersei will go crazy and Jaime will kill her just like he killed Mad King for the same reason. But we are supposed to be shocked since he loves her to guts.

[thehandwipes]

23 hours ago, MakeThemBurn said:

The show pretty much confirmed that it will be Jaime. They have never been able to pull of subtle hints due to limited minutes and at times due to mediocre writing. With all the visions of Aerys and wildfire ending up with Jaime saving the day and the way they are setting Jaime up as a big sister lover at the moment hints strongly that they are trying to create a shocker for future episodes. Cersei will go crazy and Jaime will kill her just like he killed Mad King for the same reason. But we are supposed to be shocked since he loves her to guts.

The show left out the valonqar part of the prophecy for one of two reasons.  Either they don't want to do it, or they don't want to foreshadow it because they want it to be extra shocking.  It certainly seems like they plan to burn KL this season but it still seems extremely out of character for show Cersei to do something like that (not that its ever bothered them before) but she does spend a lot of time talking about burning cities to the ground.  She may go down with the city, so no valonqar.

I really hate the idea of Jaime killing Cersei, she's the mother of his three children and his lifelong lover.  I'm all in favor of him getting out of that toxic relationship but I object to the idea of Jaime choking the life out of the mother of his children being an act of redemption.  And it would be firmly out of character for him to do it as an act of revenge, it would have to be to save the city.  So we would need a situation where killing her can save the city, but locking her in the closet and telling everyone, "Hey everyone, the Queen has gone batshit insane.  You can hear her in the closet screaming 'Burn them all!  Burn them all!'  Don't do that!  She'll tire herself out eventually," can't.

[Eric Baratheon]

Tommen (the youngest brother) kills her.

[Tinker Tanner]

The use of High Valyrian in just one word of the sentance has always bothered me. Why not Dothraki or any other language? It could just be a red herring after all.

[Iron Mother]

I don't think the show has ever referenced "The Valonqar" at all. 

Only the book did.  If true, that aspect won't play any part in Cersei's death.  Having said that, I really believe it will be Arya, her list has been shaved down such that there are very specific people on it now.  In the book, I think there's a lot more... including Ilyn Pain(?) and he hasn't been in the show in forever.  She also wants The Mountain, but we need an expected, simple task for the Sand Snakes since that's all of Dorne we will ever see now  

I'm so sad Arianne was deleted.  As lame as he was, even Quentyn.  I don't like Elaria is so prominent.  Dorne was basically castrated after Oberyn.  Everyone who really mattered was killed or omitted.  They killed Areo...... a fierce experienced warrior of Norvos, personal bodyguard of Prince Doran, they killed him like he was a stoned drunk old man.

"Keep your long axe sharp, the bearded priests always said", he oiled and buffed it every night before he went to bed for 35(?) years.  total disrespect.  In the book he narrates that Obara Sand was over-confident thinking she could beat him and he didn't want to hurt her. 

[Iron Mother]

 

On 6/21/2016 at 3:03 PM, Eric Baratheon said:

Tommen (the youngest brother) kills her.

Someone's Valonqar theory just turned to ash

 

[Ser Wun Wun]

Safe money is still on Jaime.  Tyrion's not too far behind, he has already strangled one woman to death.    

There's a slim chance Arya does it while wearing a man's face, but I doubt it.

Also, 'when your tears have drowned you' give me hope that Cersei will ally with Euron, Jaime step aside please

 

[Iron Mother]

1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Safe money is still on Jaime.  Tyrion's not too far behind, he has already strangled one woman to death.    

There's a slim chance Arya does it while wearing a man's face, but I doubt it.

Also, 'when your tears have drowned you' give me hope that Cersei will ally with Euron, Jaime step aside please

 

omg i am turned on

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

I think Jaime is easily the most obvious which makes me hope that it isn't him. Tyrion seems the most appropriate plus it's unexpected because Cersei is never right about anything.

Arya using someone else's face could be good too. 

I guess wight!Tommen is off of the table. 

Euron has potential but it isn't as personally satisfying as Tyrion, Arya, or Jaime. 

[HairGrowsBack]

2 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

 

Someone's Valonqar theory just turned to ash

 

Tell me about it, I was rooting for Loras 

 

ETA: Rationally speaking, Jaime is 99% sure to be the Valonqar...I'm just not very happy about it.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Safe money is still on Jaime.  Tyrion's not too far behind, he has already strangled one woman to death.    

There's a slim chance Arya does it while wearing a man's face, but I doubt it.

Also, 'when your tears have drowned you' give me hope that Cersei will ally with Euron, Jaime step aside please

 

So ...Jaime will get mad that she fucks Euron?  That's why they never wrote him getting mad about Lancel?  Hmm.

The latest revision on Arya's list was cut to simply Meryn Trant, Walder Frey, The Mountain, and Cersei.  She scored 2, I think she'll just go home to WF and be with her family.  She'll be heading North, Melly heading South, they'll cross paths again.  I don't think she'll be successful with the other half of that list.

[Red Rain]

Jim is not only the valonqar hes the prince that was promised and will temper lightbringer in Cersei's throat. fact.

[HairGrowsBack]

4 hours ago, Zombies That Were Promised said:

So ...Jaime will get mad that she fucks Euron?  That's why they never wrote him getting mad about Lancel?  Hmm.

 

If Jaime kills Cersei in the books, it won't be because she fucked other men; sure, he is mad about it, but his rift with her runs much deeper than that.

[Lord Varys]

Cersei should also be killed by Jaime in the show but there is no valonqar prophecy in there. Presumably this will be after Dany has conquered KL and Cersei is about to pull off the wildfire stunt again, this time with the whole city and the Red Keep.