MoonKnight21

Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

177 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

So you admit that Sansa doesn't want Tyrion? Yet you still want them to be together. It's so weird how so many posts in this thread completely disregard how Sansa feels when it's a Sansa ship thread. Actually 'weird' is the wrong word, I think 'sad' is more fitting. 

I do not disregard what Sansa feels. Nor do I ignore what Tyrion feels. Or Jon. Actually the human soul in conflict with itself is the stuff Martin's books are made of. I predict conflict, not so difficult. And Sansa will want what Martin wants her to want and do what the author wants her to do. She is the author's  fictional creation, just like Tyrion.

The complexity of "wanting" and not wanting something in Martin's world is not easy and straightforward, be it a king- or queendom or relationships. Yes, it might easily be that Tyrion and Sansa end up together even if they both had other loves, hopes and ideas originally.  Counts just as much for any other possible pairing that might exist in the end. Two more books and at least fifteen episodes to come yet, just wait and see. 

...... maybe Sansa and Tyrion will both be dead in the end. :(

Edited by Woman of War

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11 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

But Sansa will want what Martin wants her to want! She is the author's  fictional creation, just like Tyrion.

And the complexity of "wanting" and not wanting something in Martin's world is not easy and straightforward, be it a king- or queendom or relationships. Yes, it might easily be that Tyrion and Sansa end up together even if they both had other loves, hopes and ideas originally.  Counts just as much for any other possible pairing that might exist in the end. Two more books and at least fifteen episodes to come yet, just wait and see. 

Yes, I agree that Sansa wants what GRRM wants her to want. That's true of all the characters.

But that's like saying 'Meera will transform into a flamingo if GRRM wants her to!'. There is no evidence in the books that it will happen and no real reason why it would happen.

Anyway in the books we already know who Sansa wants and that's Sandor. And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. 

Edited by Joan Jett

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22 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Yes, I agree that Sansa wants what GRRM wants her to want. That's true of all the characters.

But that's like saying 'Meera will transform into a flamingo if GRRM wants her to!'. There is no evidence in the books that it will happen and no real reason why it would happen.

Anyway in the books we already know who Sansa wants and that's Sandor. And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. 

Why are you so fixated on one of thousand possible  story outcomes, I do not understand that, not at all! Will you throw the books into the garbage if the outcome is different from what you want?

Well, I won't. Otherwise I would have been done with the show and would be with the books after Shireen died. And I won't even if Tyrion or Lyanna Mormont should die, the other emotional catastrophes for me.

Heading North - everybody is heading north for the ending or do you think Dany, Jorah or Tyrion will stay out of the central conflict? Start shipping Sansa with Dany now, she is heading north! 

Elisabetta Duo has made a case for Tyrion and Sansa ending together that argues far away from all sticky sweetness, it is purely based on Martin's awareness of history. And we can like those aspects applied here or not. Two historical Elisabeths.

Have a good  night!

Edited by Woman of War

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1 minute ago, Woman of War said:

Why are you so fixated on one of thousand possible  story outcomes, I do not understand that, not at all! Will you throw the books into the garbage if the outcome is different from what you want?

Well, I won't. Otherwise I would have been done with the show and would be with the books after Shireen died. And I won't even if Tyrion or Lyanna Mormont should die, the other emotional catastrophes for me.

Heading North - everybody is heading north for the ending or do you think Dany, Jorah or Tyrion will stay out of the central conflict? Start shipping Sansa with Dany now, she is heading north! 

Elisabetta Duo has made a case for Tyrion and Sansa ending together that argues far away from all sticky sweetness, it is purely based on Martin's awareness of history. And we can like those aspects applied here or not. Two historical Elisabeths.

No? I'm not even really passionate about SanSan. It's just that the author has obviously built a relationship between them and both of them seem to have romantic feelings. That's more than can be said of the Tyrion/Sansa thing. 

I don't get why it's so hard for you to understand that Sansa canonically wants Sandor. And she is repulsed by Tyrion sexually and romantically bookwise. 

And no, not everyone is heading North currently. I'm not talking about the ending, I'm talking about next season. In one of the most recent episodes the show it was indicated through dialogue that Sandor is going North with the BWB. Meaning that he should be there, nearer to Sansa pretty soon. The same cannot be said of Tyrion and Dany. Eventually, yes, but not soon like Sandor. That's a big difference. 

Elisabetta Duo has made a very shaky case, book and showwise. I'm not convinced at all. 

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3 hours ago, Karmarni said:

Sansa is lucky to have survived it all. And as a virgin. It's deep plot armor on Sansa's part. It makes her first sexual experience all the more powerful. Which is why I think it WILL be all the more powerful. I don't think GRRM 'protected' her from the possibility of a negative encounter to turn around and have her experience a negative encounter later on. I think it will be, more or less, positive (what first time is ever truly ecstatic, right?) That she will marry, for real, and have children, I think that's pretty much a given. She's the Stark-blooded momma in the current story. 

Littlefinger and the Harry plot and all that, that's actually Sansa's 'side' story, the learning curve story. That she will ultimately return to Sansa's story, and not live out Alayne's side-story, seems evident. Littlefinger and Harry represent an inverted, perverted Ned and Joffrey from her real story. But the characters from her 'real' story matter. And Tyrion might come into it as a hurdle or a means to an end later on. But I think of Sansa as the 'songs and stories girl.' That she would get her own song and story seems a given to me. And no, it won’t be a fairytale kind of story, GRRM has shown that by his repeated use of the device that what the singers sing and storytellers write is far from the actual truth. However, for Sansa, who likes the kissing stories best and those of knightly valor, she for whom the Tourney of the Hand was the dreamiest days in her life - who is the knight, the one that will be memorable, the one with the nick just like all those knights from her stories? Sandor, the Hound. And a Hound. From the moment his 'handle' was referenced, what with all the sigils representing important elements of the story, it seemed he'd go with the wolves better than the lions (and my thought was played out by the Hound, no less, in ASoS). It all adds up. In the end, from plot, characterization, story elements, action, conflict and resolution viewpoint, this ‘song and story’ is playing out across the novels. It is the central story element catering to romance that this series has. 

That cannot, of course, be said for Tyrion and Sansa.

Well, there are hints re Sansa/Sandor too and a lot of people seem to like this pairing or think it very likely so we will have to wait and see.  Definitely Sandor has a part to play in the end game at some level or else he would have been dead rather than "presumed dead."  I personally think that there has to be an encounter of some sort with his Unbrother but this does not negate that he might also feature in Sansa's story line.  I guess part of my prediction re Sansa/Tyrion is that it could be politically quite significant and I view the series overall more as a political story but we shall see.  As for Harry and/or Robin wouldn't discount yet another marriage lol but won't last.  If this plot gets as far as Harry and Sansa married LF will kill Robin for sure but I think Sansa is likely to suspect this and use whatever "excuses" to delay this match (Harry) from becoming a reality.  I guess whatever happens it George will make it sound plausible and hey, their will be happy and not so happy readers with whatever pairing turns out to be end game as long as it is not LF lol  I have to say that I hope LF doesn't bit the dust too soon either because he is a great plot device but I definitely want him to be badly outsmarted and a revenge that is more on the "clever" and manipulative side than violent but then again... we will have to wait...

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2 hours ago, Joan Jett said:

Yes, I agree that Sansa wants what GRRM wants her to want. That's true of all the characters.

But that's like saying 'Meera will transform into a flamingo if GRRM wants her to!'. There is no evidence in the books that it will happen and no real reason why it would happen.

Anyway in the books we already know who Sansa wants and that's Sandor. And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. 

And it just so happens that in the show Sandor is heading North, where Sansa is. 

This is so true. It was obvious they are moving Sandor to where Sansa is because how and why would the BWB just randomly know about the WW's in the show? No one south of Castle Black knows. In the books Sandor will be moving to where Sansa is via another totally different set up, but the show does need to streamline, so they flipped the book story with the BWB in this case.

Anyway, I can see how the show has set up a quick arrival of the Hound to either Winterfell or somewhere north where Sansa is just as she is trying to escape Baelish for good. The Hound will become the knight she always wanted and what he dreamed knights would be when he was a little kid. This is better than that gawd awful Missy-Worm invention that added nothing to the plot progression or main character development.

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SansaxTyrion is more absurd than JonxSansa

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3 hours ago, Woman of War said:

Whores go to the Vale??? This last sentence does not make much sense since you are constructing a scenario based on  Tyrion being not even there to kill anyone. No, let's ignore that, not worth mentioning. 

 And you automatically assume that Tyrion  having  done bad acts and confessing them would mean that Martin could not write a common story of Tyrion and Sansa? Sansa will only decide for someone who has nothing to confess? LOL! That leaves Pod, I guess, and maybe our good guy Jon, well why not, a good choice both of them. But would they choose Sansa? 

What if Sansa herself will have a lot to confess and to regret in the end?  Who in this world has nothing to confess?! Apart from that Sansa knows very well what Tyrion did at Blackwater and that he killed Tywin, no secrets here. 

All pointless, it does not matter if some fans like Tyrion, Jon or Pod or not, if Martin decides that  a certain pairing in between or as endgame makes sense storywise it will happen since the author wants it to happen.

 

I think you are reaching a bit here and trying to twist words.

If Tyrion and Sansa met up again, books and show, Tyrion probably would be pissed that she took off after the poisoning of Joffery and left Tyrion and Tyrion alone to take the heat for the regicide. We, the readers and viewers, know the true story. So yes, Tyrion gets back to Westeros (as we see him doing on the show) and Sansa is outed- the Vale in the books, Winterfell the show- and he agrees or encourages a campaign there with his eye on his prize. Whores go the the Vale (Winterfell show).

And what does Sansa have to confess? Her love of lemon cakes and needing to size up a dress number? No. Sansa is a virginal , religious teenager who holds her virtue close to her heart. Tv Sansa has nothing to confess... but she has sorta done that with Jon with the whole "sorry I hid the Vale army from you', and Rickon and all. That "cat" is out of the bag--- get it? Cat!

No, Martin only writes what the characters tell him. His stories are without a doubt character driven- NOT plot driven. He says that and any other writer and reader can see that. It is why his '93 outline is so different. GRRM has made that statement many times.

Adding: The show is plot driven. Cogman even describes it here

"Character X" starts at "blank" and we want him or her to end up at "blank."

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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GRRM writes characters that stay consistent throughout the story.  Yes, they grow and change, but within the framework he has given them.  For Sansa to come to love Tyrion (and a Tryion/Sansa ship is all about Tyrion) would be inconsistent with Sansa's character.

That said could Sansa and Tyrion work?  Let's imagine a cozy night at home.......

Fade into a cold evening by the fire:

"Dear, remember when your mother kidnapped me and took me the Eyire?" 

"Oh yes dear, so glad you had a chance to meet her, before she was killed by your fathers plotting and violation of guest rights." 

"Yes, yes, darling, but thanks to that I was able to meet your vivacious Aunt Lysa.  The accommodations at the Eyrie I will never forget, what stunning views from the sky cell she gave me."

  "Oh yes my darling, the views can be beautiful in summer.   Did you meet my cousin Sweet Robin as well?" 

"Did I!  He was so excited to have me get a 'birds eye' view of the place, but drat.  It just didn't happen."

She sows another stitch, "Oh yes, love.  Remember our wedding?  How I tried to run away, cried and refused to kneel for you?  Good times, good times." 

"Yes, yes sweets, who could forget that, one of the defining moments of my life!  But your declaration of never wanting to lie with me as husband and wife, which hasn't changed, well, perhaps one day?"  

"Oh dear no, why would I go back on my word to you? I'm your good wife. Oh, and darling, remember how your fathers vassals cut off my brothers head and put his dire wolf's head on the body, such creativity!  Too bad the BWB and my zombie mother hanged them all.  Tragedy really."

"Well, well sweets, they were such good servants, it was too bad.  I did enjoy killing my father tho." 

"Please husband!  Don't say that aloud!  As it is I can't be seen in good society because my husband is a kinslayer!  That fact is such an embarrassment to me, but you're my husband, so I just smile and solider on through!"

"But wait darling, is that as bad as when you betrayed me at my nephew's wedding and left me holding the 'you killed Joffery bag?'  Cersei nearly had my head for that."

"Yes, well, your older brother, who wasn't killed in violation of guest right, did you a good turn there when he let you escape." 

"Oh, ah well, gee, um......"  

"..."

"Oh, and husband, sorry about my younger brothers showing up alive after all and reclaiming and rebuilding WF, best laid plans and all.  Alas, they won't see me because I'm married into the family that killed their father, mother and eldest brother, and forced me to marry you.  Such bad sports they are!"

"..."

"..."

"Well I'm off to the local winesink for some sour red, all we can afford these days."

"Very well, have fun with your whores tonight."

"Bye."

"Bye."

***********************************************

Nope, too much baggage.  Kinda tough to live with the man whose family killed yours and is a kinslayer to boot.  It would be inconsistent for Sansa to fall in love with a man who forced was on her (he also agreed to marriage by the way) by the family that killed hers.

Let me repeat that, Tyrion Lannister is a member of the family that killed Sansa's beloved mother, father and older brother.  A member of the family who kept her as hostage, let her be tortured and humiliated by her fiance, and forced her to marry the least desirable and most physically repulsive man in the family to steal her claim to Winterfell.

And Tyrion has gotten worse since she left KL.  He's a kinslayer now, and in the show, and if it happens in the book as we expect, he will align himself with Dany which means he will be a traitor to the realm of Westeros. 

Not to mention, Sansa is from House Stark, and is the daughter of King Robert's most important bannerman.  Dany, who will be Tyrion's liege, doesn't have warm fuzzy feelings for Robert, his rebellion or his bannermen. 

So the negatives just keep piling up and there is nothing, nothing, that Tryion can bring into a marriage for Sansa.  Nothing.

 

Edited by LongRider

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11 minutes ago, LongRider said:

GRRM writes characters that stay consistent throughout the story.  Yes, they grow and change, but within the framework he has given them.  For Sansa to come to love Tyrion (and a Tryion/Sansa ship is all about Tyrion) would be inconsistent with Sansa's character.

That said could Sansa and Tyrion work?  Let's imagine a cozy night at home.......

Fade into a cold evening by the fire:

"Dear, remember when your mother kidnapped me and took me the Eyire?" 

"Oh yes dear, so glad you had a chance to meet her, before she was killed by your fathers plotting and violation of guest rights." 

"Yes, yes, darling, but thanks to that I was able to meet your vivacious Aunt Lysa.  The accommodations at the Eyrie I will never forget, what stunning views from the sky cell she gave me."

  "Oh yes my darling, the views can be beautiful in summer.   Did you meet my cousin Sweet Robin as well?" 

"Did I!  He was so excited to have me get a 'birds eye' view of the place, but drat.  It just didn't happen."

She sows another stitch, "Oh yes, love.  Remember our wedding?  How I tried to run away, cried and refused to kneel for you?  Good times, good times." 

"Yes, yes sweets, who could forget that, one of the defining moments of my life!  But your declaration of never wanting to lie with me as husband and wife, which hasn't changed, well, perhaps one day?"  

"Oh dear no, why would I go back on my word to you? I'm your good wife. Oh, and darling, remember how your fathers vassals cut off my brothers head and put his dire wolf's head on the body, such creativity!  Too bad the BWB and my zombie mother hanged them all.  Tragedy really."

"Well, well sweets, they were such good servants, it was too bad.  I did enjoy killing my father tho." 

"Please husband!  Don't say that aloud!  As it is I can't be seen in good society because my husband is a kinslayer!  That fact is such an embarrassment to me, but you're my husband, so I just smile and solider on through!"

"But wait darling, is that as bad as when you betrayed me at my nephew's wedding and left me holding the 'you killed Joffery bag?'  Cersei nearly had my head for that."

"Yes, well, your older brother, who wasn't killed in violation of guest right, did you a good turn there when he let you escape." 

"Oh, ah well, gee, um......"  

"..."

"Oh, and husband, sorry about my younger brothers showing up alive after all and reclaiming and rebuilding WF, best laid plans and all.  Alas, they won't see me because I'm married into the family that killed their father, mother and eldest brother, and forced me to marry you.  Such bad sports they are!"

"..."

"..."

"Well I'm off to the local winesink for some sour red, all we can afford these days."

"Very well, have fun with your whores tonight."

"Bye."

"Bye."

***********************************************

Nope, too much baggage.  Kinda tough to live with the man whose family killed yours and is a kinslayer to boot.  It would be inconsistent for Sansa to fall in love with a man who forced was on her (he also agreed to marriage by the way) by the family that killed hers.

Let me repeat that, Tyrion Lannister is a member of the family that killed Sansa's beloved mother, father and older brother.  A member of the family who kept her as hostage, let her be tortured and humiliated by her fiance, and forced her to marry the least desirable and most physically repulsive man in the family to steal her claim to Winterfell.

And Tyrion has gotten worse since she left KL.  He's a kinslayer now, and in the show, and if it happens in the book as we expect, he will align himself with Dany which means he will be a traitor to the realm of Westeros. 

Not to mention, Sansa is from House Stark, and is the daughter of King Robert's most important bannerman.  Dany, who will be Tyrion's liege, doesn't have warm fuzzy feelings for Robert, his rebellion or his bannermen. 

So the negatives just keep piling up and there is nothing, nothing, that Tryion can bring into a marriage for Sansa.  Nothing.

 

On the good times: :thumbsup:

On the bold: well, he can bring "kindness" into it ;)

 

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3 hours ago, Woman of War said:

I do not disregard what Sansa feels. Nor do I ignore what Tyrion feels. Or Jon. Actually the human soul in conflict with itself is the stuff Martin's books are made of. I predict conflict, not so difficult.

There's been nothing but conflict for Sansa since aGoT - and the big canon conflict is comparing every guy to Sandor, and she finds them all wanting at some point, and that includes "kind" Tyrion, next to Joffrey, next to Loras, next to Sweetrobin and next to Harry. Eventually the conflict of the soul with itself seeks a resolution, and that isn't "Hmmmm, let's pick the guy I pity, who married me for my claim that I'm sick to death about, when he's my enemy, who never did anything to save my family, when it makes no political sense".

Edited by sweetsunray

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23 minutes ago, LongRider said:

snip

Perfect. That is all.

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@LongRider wow. It's funny because it's true! That is more moving than most of what I have seen so far. Good job :thumbsup:

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Thanks for the kudos, I must admit, Tyrion as a traitor to Westeros is something I haven't thought of before, but I'd bet money that GRRM has.  And being a traitor to ones country is a big deal. 

Why would Sansa want a traitor to Westeros?  Isn't being a member of the Stark killing Lannisters enough?  Why ship her with someone most from Westeros would want to hate because of his alignment with the enemy?  Because he was not mean to her a tiny bit a couple of times?  The 'little monkey demon' is already hated by many, being a traitor will won't help that.

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On 7/3/2016 at 11:17 PM, Woman of War said:

Whores go to the Vale??? This last sentence does not make much sense since you are constructing a scenario based on  Tyrion being not even there to kill anyone. No, let's ignore that, not worth mentioning. 

 And you automatically assume that Tyrion  having  done bad acts and confessing them would mean that Martin could not write a common story of Tyrion and Sansa? Sansa will only decide for someone who has nothing to confess? LOL! That leaves Pod, I guess, and maybe our good guy Jon, well why not, a good choice both of them. But would they choose Sansa? 

What if Sansa herself will have a lot to confess and to regret in the end?  Who in this world has nothing to confess?! Apart from that Sansa knows very well what Tyrion did at Blackwater and that he killed Tywin, no secrets here. 

All pointless, it does not matter if some fans like Tyrion, Jon or Pod or not, if Martin decides that  a certain pairing in between or as endgame makes sense storywise it will happen since the author wants it to happen.

 

 

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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1 hour ago, LongRider said:

Thanks for the kudos, I must admit, Tyrion as a traitor to Westeros is something I haven't thought of before, but I'd bet money that GRRM has.  And being a traitor to ones country is a big deal. 

Why would Sansa want a traitor to Westeros?  Isn't being a member of the Stark killing Lannisters enough?  Why ship her with someone most from Westeros would want to hate because of his alignment with the enemy?  Because he was not mean to her a tiny bit a couple of times?  The 'little monkey demon' is already hated by many, being a traitor will won't help that.

LOL, never thought of that but you guys are genious; betraying the lot and "teleporting" to a new reality with his wits, her looks, her wits, his money... their children (dwarves or not or a bit of both) yeah:  happy ending for me if that happened lol

Okay, being serious now, because when the chips come down they need to take down LF, together! as both know only the half as it were...

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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With respect, I think the odds of Tyrion and Sansa living happily ever after together are microscopic.

I'm not criticizing anyone here who might disagree, just offering my own opinion about the odds of this happening, in books or show

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3 minutes ago, Cron said:

With respect, I think the odds of Tyrion and Sansa living happily ever after together are microscopic.

I'm not criticizing anyone here who might disagree, just offering my own opinion about the odds of this happening, in books or show

 

3 minutes ago, Cron said:

With respect, I think the odds of Tyrion and Sansa living happily ever after together are microscopic.

I'm not criticizing anyone here who might disagree, just offering my own opinion about the odds of this happening, in books or show

Fair deal; no one can know what George will do in the end, my prediction mixed with my wish I guess but hey, it would be boring if we knew already lol :)

 

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6 hours ago, Woman of War said:

I do not disregard what Sansa feels. Nor do I ignore what Tyrion feels. Or Jon. Actually the human soul in conflict with itself is the stuff Martin's books are made of. I predict conflict, not so difficult. And Sansa will want what Martin wants her to want and do what the author wants her to do. She is the author's  fictional creation, just like Tyrion.

The complexity of "wanting" and not wanting something in Martin's world is not easy and straightforward, be it a king- or queendom or relationships. Yes, it might easily be that Tyrion and Sansa end up together even if they both had other loves, hopes and ideas originally.  Counts just as much for any other possible pairing that might exist in the end. Two more books and at least fifteen episodes to come yet, just wait and see. 

...... maybe Sansa and Tyrion will both be dead in the end. :(

lol yes absolutely; but one or the other alive please George

 

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11 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@LongRider wow. It's funny because it's true! That is more moving than most of what I have seen so far. Good job :thumbsup:

some might think being "sarky" is cool, some of us merely want to discuss possible outcomes without mocking the people who support other theories...(debate is one thing; mocking is another).  

A bit like real life politics: very easy to join the "hate establishment" or "hate-anti establisment" as it might be a tadd harder to do it well yourself (rulling) lol  This post is not aimed at people who disliked my predictions or even ships only at the ones who tried to ridiculed them

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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