NBA Offseason: Oklahoma! Where the MVP Free Agents Come Falling From the Sky

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Why would Russ sign that to be make it easier to be traded? He would have been a UFA at the end of the season, which means he can go wherever he wanted. It would make sense for OKC if they wanted to get rid of him (which of course they don't), but it wouldn't make any sense for Russ.

I didn't say he signed to make it easier to trade him. I was saying that now, if the Thunder want to trade him, they can get a much better deal because he won't be a one year rental. And frankly, this deal doesn't make sense for Russ. If he wanted to be there long term he should have just let his contract expire and get a mega deal at the end of the season. He cost himself money for no reason at all if he wants to be ion OKC for the long haul. 

3 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

An absolutely bizarre and negative response to this news.

 

How so? Read above, this deal doesn't really make sense if Russ wanted to be in OKC for a long time. 

 

 

And look at their starting lineup now: Westbrook, Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter and Adams. Please tell me how this is a good team....

[sperry]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I didn't say he signed to make it easier to trade him. I was saying that now, if the Thunder want to trade him, they can get a much better deal because he won't be a one year rental. And frankly, this deal doesn't make sense for Russ. If he wanted to be there long term he should have just let his contract expire and get a mega deal at the end of the season. He cost himself money for no reason at all if he wants to be ion OKC for the long haul. 

How so? Read above, this deal doesn't really make sense if Russ wanted to be in OKC for a long time. 

 

 

And look at their starting lineup now: Westbrook, Oladipo, Roberson, Kanter and Adams. Please tell me how this is a good team....

 

Two years from now (when he can opt out after the season) he will be in his tenth year, plus OKC has bird rights. If he wants to do so, he'll be the NBA's first $200 million player in that contract. So this deal makes perfect financial sense, because it maximizes his earning power. It's why everyone thought KD would sign the 1 + 1 this year.

 

Define good?  It's not a championship contender as is, but it's got some really good pieces, plus a couple of lottery picks developing on the bench.  They also have room for another max player if they trade Kanter. This team is probably the 4 seed in the west as is.  If you can replace Kanter with a star level player, it's back in championship contention.

[David Selig]

35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And frankly, this deal doesn't make sense for Russ. If he wanted to be there long term he should have just let his contract expire and get a mega deal at the end of the season. He cost himself money for no reason at all if he wants to be ion OKC for the long haul.

Actually this makes perfect financial sense if he wants to stay long term. He gets a lot more more money for next season. Then in 2018 he would be a 10 year vet and would be able to sign a much bigger max deal than he would have been eligible for in 2017 (35% of the cap instead of 30%).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Two years from now (when he can opt out after the season) he will be in his tenth year, plus OKC has bird rights. If he wants to do so, he'll be the NBA's first $200 million player in that contract. So this deal makes perfect financial sense, because it maximizes his earning power. It's why everyone thought KD would sign the 1 + 1 this year.

Some of you guys make way too much about the 10 year max for the true star players. That said, if Russ wants to maximize his financial situation it makes sense. If he wants to win a title it doesn't. 

26 minutes ago, sperry said:

Define good?  It's not a championship contender as is, but it's got some really good pieces, plus a couple of lottery picks developing on the bench.  They also have room for another max player if they trade Kanter. This team is probably the 4 seed in the west as is.  If you can replace Kanter with a star level player, it's back in championship contention.

Win your division and/or be a top 4 seed? Portland should be the favorite in Northwest Division and I can't see the Thunder being a top 4 team in the West. If you don't have a contender or a young team that can be molded into a contender you're just spinning your wheels.

Also, I think your assessment of your team is wrong. They have 1 amazing piece, 2 alright pieces, and a lot of ?????. And Idk why you think they can replace Kanter with a star level player. 

[David Selig]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Some of you guys make way too much about the 10 year max for the true star players.

5% of the projected cap for 2018 and beyond is about 5.5 mln. For a 5 year contract that is 27.5 mln. That is a lot of money even for these guys. Even Durant with his huge shoe deal opted for a shorter deal so he could sign a 10 year max later.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Actually this makes perfect financial sense if he wants to stay long term. He gets a lot more more money for next season. Then in 2018 he would be a 10 year vet and would be able to sign a much bigger max deal than he would have been eligible for in 2017 (35% of the cap instead of 30%).

I guess you guys are right if Russ wants to stay in OKC for the long run. But that also likely means he's not going to win a title.

[Rhom]

Why would Russ not have signed this earlier?  Wouldn't it have made it much easier to sign free agents if they had known Westbrook was going to be there at least two years?

[sperry]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Some of you guys make way too much about the 10 year max for the true star players. That said, if Russ wants to maximize his financial situation it makes sense. If he wants to win a title it doesn't. 

Win your division and/or be a top 4 seed? Portland should be the favorite in Northwest Division and I can't see the Thunder being a top 4 team in the West. If you don't have a contender or a young team that can be molded into a contender you're just spinning your wheels.

Also, I think your assessment of your team is wrong. They have 1 amazing piece, 2 alright pieces, and a lot of ?????. And Idk why you think they can replace Kanter with a star level player. 

 

You just said it didn't make financial sense for Russ to sign the short term deal, so I showed you why it actually does make financial sense.

 

I would take OKC's roster over Portland's, but let's say you're right and Portland is better. Really not much difference between the 4 and the 5 seed. And OKC is one of the youngest teams in the league.  They're going to be starting Russ, 23 year old Steven Adams, 24 year old Victor Oladipo, 25 year old Andre Roberson. They've got a bunch of early 20 somethings making up their primary bench players.

 

As for the pieces, we'll see.  Calling Steven Adams an "alright" piece is laughable. He's an athletic 7 footer who will be 23 this season and is trending nowhere but up.  Oladipo is already a good NBA player, who still has room for huge improvement.  Neither is a sure thing to develop into a legit all-star, but both have a chance, with Adams having a very good chance.

 

I didn't say I think they can replace Kanter with a star. I said if they get his salary off the books this season then they will have the cap room to offer a max deal.  That doesn't mean they can get someone, but they'll be one of the best teams that can actually offer a max deal to someone. Blake Griffin is a UFA and is from OKC, so that's likely their best chance. But Russ signing this deal gives them a much better chance to go sign somebody, since he's showed that he's not hellbent on getting out of OKC.

[Maithanet]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

I didn't say I think they can replace Kanter with a star. I said if they get his salary off the books this season then they will have the cap room to offer a max deal.  That doesn't mean they can get someone, but they'll be one of the best teams that can actually offer a max deal to someone. Blake Griffin is a UFA and is from OKC, so that's likely their best chance. But Russ signing this deal gives them a much better chance to go sign somebody, since he's showed that he's not hellbent on getting out of OKC.

I would love to see a Westbrook-Griffin-Adams-Oladipo team.  They would be fun to watch, just so physical, and a very tough out even for the Warriors. 

[Calibandar]

16 minutes ago, sperry said:

But Russ signing this deal gives them a much better chance to go sign somebody, since he's showed that he's not hellbent on getting out of OKC.

Exactly.

It's a very encouraging move for OKC that he's signed this 3 year deal. 

 

35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I guess you guys are right if Russ wants to stay in OKC for the long run. But that also likely means he's not going to win a title.

It is of course not said that he cannot win a title with OKC. So many developments can still take place over the next 3 years that he has signed up for, no one can predict how the power balance will shift.

Like Sperry I would also take this current roster over Portland btw. And where Portland is maxed out, OKC actually still has options and is looking into adding another piece ( or two). Hopefully this year, but otherwise in Summer 2017.

And in any case, where was he going to go to that would offer that better chance at winning a championship?Even if he wanted to leave, which apparently he didn't, what's the better option if you actually want to win a title? Boston and LA were rumored as possible destinations and that's not going to get you there either as things stand. LA have a team full of unproven youngsters that will again be among the worst ranking teams in the league this year, and Boston have Bradley, Crowder, Amir Johnson and Al Horford who'd be his starting teammates...

[David Selig]

30 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Why would Russ not have signed this earlier?  Wouldn't it have made it much easier to sign free agents if they had known Westbrook was going to be there at least two years?

OKC didn't have the cap space needed for this before Durant and Waiters left.

[sperry]

33 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Why would Russ not have signed this earlier?  Wouldn't it have made it much easier to sign free agents if they had known Westbrook was going to be there at least two years?

Selig is correct in that the cap space wasn't there until Waiters was off the books.  But there was nobody to get this FA period anyway because Durant strung them out until the last minute.

 

OKC is likely to be the best team that can offer a max deal to somebody over the next two seasons, with GS, Cle, SA, LAC, Tor all maxed out.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

You just said it didn't make financial sense for Russ to sign the short term deal, so I showed you why it actually does make financial sense.

And I just said I was wrong.

6 minutes ago, sperry said:

I would take OKC's roster over Portland's, but let's say you're right and Portland is better. Really not much difference between the 4 and the 5 seed. And OKC is one of the youngest teams in the league.  They're going to be starting Russ, 23 year old Steven Adams, 24 year old Victor Oladipo, 25 year old Andre Roberson. They've got a bunch of early 20 somethings making up their primary bench players.

Portland's team is sneaky good. And the 5th seed is the best you can hope for. Any lower and it's all but guaranteed that they're out in the first round of the playoffs. 

13 minutes ago, sperry said:

As for the pieces, we'll see.  Calling Steven Adams an "alright" piece is laughable. He's an athletic 7 footer who will be 23 this season and is trending nowhere but up.  Oladipo is already a good NBA player, who still has room for huge improvement.  Neither is a sure thing to develop into a legit all-star, but both have a chance, with Adams having a very good chance.

Adam's career stats are very average, and his offensive game is extremely limited. You can hide that when you have Durant and Westbrook, but it may become a liability this season. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's got a long ways to go before he can be called all-star quality. 

19 minutes ago, sperry said:

I didn't say I think they can replace Kanter with a star. I said if they get his salary off the books this season then they will have the cap room to offer a max deal.  That doesn't mean they can get someone, but they'll be one of the best teams that can actually offer a max deal to someone. Blake Griffin is a UFA and is from OKC, so that's likely their best chance. But Russ signing this deal gives them a much better chance to go sign somebody, since he's showed that he's not hellbent on getting out of OKC.

Eh, I doubt they can lure any stars, but we shall see. And what's the best result a Westbrook-Griffin combo can get you? I honestly have no idea, but I doubt that's a championship duo. 

[Fez]

13 minutes ago, sperry said:

Selig is correct in that the cap space wasn't there until Waiters was off the books.  But there was nobody to get this FA period anyway because Durant strung them out until the last minute.

There was probably also a lot of talking between OKC and Westbrook about what the team would look like longterm and Westbrook talking with whoever he trusts the most about his plans for the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if Westbrook didn't agree to the deal until after OKC presented him with a detailed, realistic plan about how the team would move forward, what his role would be, what roles his teammates would have, etc. And that can take time to come up with.

[briantw]

7 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Russell Westbrook extends his contract with OKC, a 3 year deal!

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/122306/russell-westbrook-has-proven-to-be-worth-it-in-the-past

 

Excellent news. Now hopefully OKC can strengthen the squad.

Makes Durant look like even more of a bitch, as one of the big reasons given for why he left was that Westbrook refused to commit to the team.  That's obviously bullshit now.

[sperry]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And I just said I was wrong.

Portland's team is sneaky good. And the 5th seed is the best you can hope for. Any lower and it's all but guaranteed that they're out in the first round of the playoffs. 

Adam's career stats are very average, and his offensive game is extremely limited. You can hide that when you have Durant and Westbrook, but it may become a liability this season. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's got a long ways to go before he can be called all-star quality. 

Eh, I doubt they can lure any stars, but we shall see. And what's the best result a Westbrook-Griffin combo can get you? I honestly have no idea, but I doubt that's a championship duo. 

 

Adams just played his age 22 season, he's trending WAY up.  He's an athletic, 7 foot monster who was anchored the middle on what was basically the best rebounding team in NBA history. He's got good hands and is developing some nice touch around the basket.  I'd expect him to average 14 and 12 next year while playing good defense.

 

Again, we'll see on luring stars. The best teams in the league can't bring anyone in though (Cle, GS, SA, LAC, Tor), meaning OKC is one of the most desirable landing spots from a basketball perspective.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Really? Draymond Green is such a hated figure? I don't see it. He knocked a guy out who was running his mouth....sometimes it's needed, no big deal. Dick pic? Shit, he's 259th athlete or celebrity to do that, who cares? The media along with everyone else takes the littlest things and turns them into stories. This shit won't even matter two weeks from now. All that matters is Draymond is a beast on the court and will take on whatever role GS needs him to,  and will perform at a very high level. This shit is laughable. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

55 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

It is of course not said that he cannot win a title with OKC. So many developments can still take place over the next 3 years that he has signed up for, no one can predict how the power balance will shift.

Maybe I went too far in saying he can't win a title there, but I believe it's highly unlikely. We've already seen that he struggled to carry the team on his own.

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

Like Sperry I would also take this current roster over Portland btw. And where Portland is maxed out, OKC actually still has options and is looking into adding another piece ( or two). Hopefully this year, but otherwise in Summer 2017.

 Nearly every article I've read projecting how each team should do in the 2016-17 season has Portland ahead of OKC. Now they obviously have to play the games, but the professional basketball analysts  are by and large projecting OKC to be a fringe playoff team. 

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

And in any case, where was he going to go to that would offer that better chance at winning a championship?Even if he wanted to leave, which apparently he didn't, what's the better option if you actually want to win a title? Boston and LA were rumored as possible destinations and that's not going to get you there either as things stand. LA have a team full of unproven youngsters that will again be among the worst ranking teams in the league this year, and Boston have Bradley, Crowder, Amir Johnson and Al Horford who'd be his starting teammates...

You said it yourself. Boston. They had the assets to get him without hurt their own chances and they're in the East. They probably wouldn't get past a healthy Cleveland, but they would probably be the second seed overall. 

[briantw]

29 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Really? Draymond Green is such a hated figure? I don't see it. He knocked a guy out who was running his mouth....sometimes it's needed, no big deal. Dick pic? Shit, he's 259th athlete or celebrity to do that, who cares? The media along with everyone else takes the littlest things and turns them into stories. This shit won't even matter two weeks from now. All that matters is Draymond is a beast on the court and will take on whatever role GS needs him to,  and will perform at a very high level. This shit is laughable. 

I actually think people hate him for the fact that he's a dirty player who takes regular cheap shots on opponents more so than because he sent a dick pic.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

46 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

Adams just played his age 22 season, he's trending WAY up.  He's an athletic, 7 foot monster who was anchored the middle on what was basically the best rebounding team in NBA history. He's got good hands and is developing some nice touch around the basket.  I'd expect him to average 14 and 12 next year while playing good defense.

Is he? He had a good run in the playoffs, but he also had favorable match ups. And even then he went 10/10. which again, isn't bad, but isn't amazing either. Yes he's young, but he's also started for two seasons now and he averaged 7.7/7.5 and 8/6.7 respectively. He's alright, verging on good. Maybe he will be an all-star in the future and maybe he'll just be a nice role player. Who knows. But I think you're overselling him here in the same way I oversell Wiggins, because there's a personal attachment to the player/team.