NBA Offseason: Oklahoma! Where the MVP Free Agents Come Falling From the Sky

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

17 minutes ago, briantw said:

I actually think people hate him for the fact that he's a dirty player who takes regular cheap shots on opponents more so than because he sent a dick pic.  

True, but that's been the case for awhile, so why all of a sudden he is such a hated figure? He's been a dirty player, not a new development. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

True, but that's been the case for awhile, so why all of a sudden he is such a hated figure? He's been a dirty player, not a new development. 

Because a billion people saw it happen live during the playoffs multiple times that probably only caught the occasional Warriors highlight reel on ESPN during the regular season.  And given that ESPN spent the majority of the season giving the Warriors verbal fellatio, the average NBA fan likely didn't see any of the bad stuff.

[Rhom]

55 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Really? Draymond Green is such a hated figure? I don't see it. He knocked a guy out who was running his mouth....sometimes it's needed, no big deal. Dick pic? Shit, he's 259th athlete or celebrity to do that, who cares? The media along with everyone else takes the littlest things and turns them into stories. This shit won't even matter two weeks from now. All that matters is Draymond is a beast on the court and will take on whatever role GS needs him to,  and will perform at a very high level. This shit is laughable. 

If somehow this can turn into a viral YouTube video like the Brett Favre "What Should I Do," then I'm totally onboard with the dick pic!

 

[briantw]

19 minutes ago, Rhom said:

If somehow this can turn into a viral YouTube video like the Brett Favre "What Should I Do," then I'm totally onboard with the dick pic!

 

I don't really get why someone sending a dick pic is a big deal to begin with.  It's really funny that Green accidentally posted it to My Story on Snapchat, and that he was dumb enough to blame hackers afterward, but it's not really a major issue.  Just a guy who has been acting like a fool for the past few months continuing to act like a fool.

[Relic]

I'd be so bummed if my dick pics ended up on TMZ, tbh. 

[sperry]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is he? He had a good run in the playoffs, but he also had favorable match ups. And even then he went 10/10. which again, isn't bad, but isn't amazing either. Yes he's young, but he's also started for two seasons now and he averaged 7.7/7.5 and 8/6.7 respectively. He's alright, verging on good. Maybe he will be an all-star in the future and maybe he'll just be a nice role player. Who knows. But I think you're overselling him here in the same way I oversell Wiggins, because there's a personal attachment to the player/team. 

 

 

The Thunder are replacing a guy who averaged 28 and 8 with some of the highest usage rate in the NBA. The numbers for everyone on the Thunder are going to improve big time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

The Thunder are replacing a guy who averaged 28 and 8 with some of the highest usage rate in the NBA. The numbers for everyone on the Thunder are going to improve big time.

True, but I'm guessing Westbrook fills most of that void followed by Oladipo. Look I'm not trying to crap all over Adams, I like him and I think he could become a very good player. But he's no where close to that yet, and I feel like he's getting over hyped because he had a solid playoff run. He needs to seriously expand his offensive game if he every wants to be an all-star. 

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

True, but I'm guessing Westbrook fills most of that void followed by Oladipo. Look I'm not trying to crap all over Adams, I like him and I think he could become a very good player. But he's no where close to that yet, and I feel like he's getting over hyped because he had a solid playoff run. He needs to seriously expand his offensive game if he every wants to be an all-star. 

 

 

Again, he's getting hyped because he's an athletic 7 footer who just played his age 22 season and has improved dramatically every step of the way.  His floor is like a 10 and 10 guy who is a very good defender, and he has plenty of room to go up from there.

[Calibandar]

18 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Maybe I went too far in saying he can't win a title there, but I believe it's highly unlikely. We've already seen that he struggled to carry the team on his own.

 Nearly every article I've read projecting how each team should do in the 2016-17 season has Portland ahead of OKC. Now they obviously have to play the games, but the professional basketball analysts  are by and large projecting OKC to be a fringe playoff team. 

You said it yourself. Boston. They had the assets to get him without hurt their own chances and they're in the East. They probably wouldn't get past a healthy Cleveland, but they would probably be the second seed overall. 

All of your points seems so strange. No one is arguing OKC will win a title with just Westbrook so why is the fact that he would struggle the carry the whole team on his own even coming into the discussion? They could win a title, if they trade well or get someone in free agency, that was the argument. 

As for Portland, their roster for this year is second tier. So is OKC's, Memphis, Dallas, Utah, Houston.

All of these will be fighting for spots 4-8, that much people agree on. And Portland is capped out with what they have, and yet like OKC, is a 1 star team with some ok support players. I don't see Lillard, McCollum, Evan Turner, Aminu and Plumlee as better than the current OKC roster, at all.

As for Boston being the place he should have gone to to win a title, as I said, they're not getting you there if you're Westbrook. Simply not good enough. Thomas might be their best player and he would be the one to get replaced if Westbrook came in. The rest, ok players with a lot of heart.

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Is he? He had a good run in the playoffs, but he also had favorable match ups. And even then he went 10/10. which again, isn't bad, but isn't amazing either. Yes he's young, but he's also started for two seasons now and he averaged 7.7/7.5 and 8/6.7 respectively. He's alright, verging on good. Maybe he will be an all-star in the future and maybe he'll just be a nice role player. Who knows. But I think you're overselling him here in the same way I oversell Wiggins, because there's a personal attachment to the player/team. 

 

I think both Wiggins and Adams are going to be great this year. Adams definitely needs improvement on the offensive end, but he was a beast in the playoffs, people have seen it and why would he not be able to have another strong season, one on which he even improves an aspect of his game?

[briantw]

2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

As for Boston being the place he should have gone to to win a title, as I said, they're not getting you there if you're Westbrook. Simply not good enough. Thomas might be their best player and he would be the one to get replaced if Westbrook came in. The rest, ok players with a lot of heart.

As long as LeBron is in the East, Boston isn't getting out of the second round.  Adding a past his prime Al Horford, who has been absolutely abused by Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson in the playoffs, isn't going to move the needle.  Westbrook would make them better, to be sure, but still not good enough to beat the Cavs.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 hours ago, sperry said:

 

 

Again, he's getting hyped because he's an athletic 7 footer who just played his age 22 season and has improved dramatically every step of the way.  His floor is like a 10 and 10 guy who is a very good defender, and he has plenty of room to go up from there.

I don't think he's getting a ton of hype outside of OKC circles, and saying he's improved dramatically at every step is a bit of an exaggeration. Again, he's been the Thunder's starting center for two years and his numbers have remained relatively flat and his rebounding averages actually took a dip in year 3. He may eventually become a top 5 center, but right now, on this day, he's slightly above average, and if you Google "rank NBA centers" you'll see that practically every list agrees with my assessment. 

If Adams averages a double-double next season you can pick my title for the playoffs. 

[sperry]

41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't think he's getting a ton of hype outside of OKC circles, and saying he's improved dramatically at every step is a bit of an exaggeration. Again, he's been the Thunder's starting center for two years and his numbers have remained relatively flat and his rebounding averages actually took a dip in year 3. He may eventually become a top 5 center, but right now, on this day, he's slightly above average, and if you Google "rank NBA centers" you'll see that practically every list agrees with my assessment. 

If Adams averages a double-double next season you can pick my title for the playoffs. 

 

His rebounding numbers aren't great because the Thunder didn't want him grabbing a lot of defensive rebounds. They specifically focused the big guys on blocking out so that Westbrook and Durant could grab rebounds and run with it.  There's a reason that Russ averaged more rebounds per game than Adams. The Thunder were the best rebounding team in NBA history last season, and Adams was a huge part of that.

 

His improvement has come on the offensive end. He's been a good rebounder and defender since entering the league, but he's really improved his ability to finish around the basket. Both the ESPN and TNT guys were losing their minds gushing over Adams in the playoffs. Adams was worth more win shares (2.1 to 2.0) than Kevin Durant in the '15-'16 playoffs, despite playing 200 less minutes.

 

That Adams double double bet is about as easy as it gets. That's going to happen regardless of how good the Thunder or Adams are. He's going to get more minutes, more touches on offense, and Durant and Ibaka's 15 rebounds per game are going up for grabs.

 

Also, the Thunder aren't being projected as a fringe playoff team. They're being projected as at worst a 5 seed.

[Relic]

USA down to Aus by 5 at halftime. Interesting development. Not much passing for the USA this game. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

On 8/5/2016 at 9:22 AM, sperry said:

That Adams double double bet is about as easy as it gets. That's going to happen regardless of how good the Thunder or Adams are. He's going to get more minutes, more touches on offense, and Durant and Ibaka's 15 rebounds per game are going up for grabs.

Don't get ahead of yourself. Only 9 guys averaged a double-double last year (with rebounds) and Adams had a grand total of 6 double-doubles during the regular season. He will certainly have more opportunities, but averaging a double-double isn't an easy thing to do. 

On 8/5/2016 at 9:22 AM, sperry said:

Also, the Thunder aren't being projected as a fringe playoff team. They're being projected as at worst a 5 seed.

Where are you getting this? Every 2016-17 projection I've seen has them ranked somewhere between 12 and 18 overall. 

That said, let's look at the West. The Warriors, Spurs and Clippers are clearly the best three teams. The next two best teams are probably the Trailblazers and the Jazz. The final three playoff slots will be filled by three of these six teams: Thunder, Wolves, Rockets, Mavs, Pelicans and the Grizzlies. 

[Calibandar]

I think where you go wrong is assessing the Trailblazers and the Jazz as a tier higher than the current OKC team.

I do hope OKC will still make a trade to improve the roster but as it stands I expect them to finish 4th, or 5th, in the West. 

I don't think Jazz and Trailblazers should be a tier higher regardless. I'd expect the Grizzlies to be on the same level as well, depending on Gasol's recovery. Mavs, Rockets likewise, on roughly the same level as Jazz and TB.

The Pelicans could surprise with Davis back and a whole new team around him. Big questionmark.

Hoping the T-Wolves will be surprisingly great already and compete for a playoffs spot though you'd have to put them on a tier below all of of the above except the Pelicans.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

I think where you go wrong is assessing the Trailblazers and the Jazz as a tier higher than the current OKC team.

Why? The Blazers were the 5th seed last year, and they didn't get any worse this offseason, so unless they were a flash in the pan they should maintain their spot or move up a seed. And the Jazz were really good when healthy. If their starters can stay on the floor together they should be really good this year.

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

I do hope OKC will still make a trade to improve the roster but as it stands I expect them to finish 4th, or 5th, in the West. 

Again why? They lost their best player, who happens to be the third best player in the NBA. That doesn't translate into dropping a seed or two in the playoffs. 

1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

I don't think Jazz and Trailblazers should be a tier higher regardless. I'd expect the Grizzlies to be on the same level as well, depending on Gasol's recovery. Mavs, Rockets likewise, on roughly the same level as Jazz and TB.

The Pelicans could surprise with Davis back and a whole new team around him. Big questionmark.

Hoping the T-Wolves will be surprisingly great already and compete for a playoffs spot though you'd have to put them on a tier below all of of the above except the Pelicans.

I grouped those 6 teams together because they all have giant questionmarks. Anyone of them could reasonably make or miss the playoffs. 

[Calibandar]

35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why? The Blazers were the 5th seed last year, and they didn't get any worse this offseason, so unless they were a flash in the pan they should maintain their spot or move up a seed. And the Jazz were really good when healthy. If their starters can stay on the floor together they should be really good this year.

Again why? They lost their best player, who happens to be the third best player in the NBA. That doesn't translate into dropping a seed or two in the playoffs. 

 

I expect the Blazers to once again bounce around that 4th or 5th spot. The Jazz, they should make the playoffs as well really with the trades they've done and the talent they have. It's not a great team though so it goes too far to elevate them over OKC, or Memphis, Houston, maybe even Dallas. There will be some differences there but it will be close.

As for OKC, yes they lost Durant, but the quality of competition determines how much they drop off, and I don't think any of the teams outside the top 3 are great teams. The Thunder will undeniably be worse but there is still a lot of quality there, compared to rosters around them. With Westbrook, Oladipo, Kanter and Adams they have 4 fine starters. Westbrook is so good that he adds additional value , superstar value that none of the other teams in this second tier have.

[Proudfeet]

I'm really curious if Memphis and Dallas can manage to hang on to a playoff spot yet again. They really seemed like they weren't going to make it at various points but they managed to stay in the pack of the lower seeded teams. Memphis was even leading it at some point near the end I believe.

I guess the main disagreement here is whether which teams if any able to elevate themselves past the pack outside of the top three teams.

Anyway, no season is without injuries. Not wishing bad luck on anyone, but predictions are based mostly on more or less good health. Look how New Orleans ended up last season when everyone thought they would be able to build on their playoff appearance.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I expect the Blazers to once again bounce around that 4th or 5th spot. The Jazz, they should make the playoffs as well really with the trades they've done and the talent they have. It's not a great team though so it goes too far to elevate them over OKC, or Memphis, Houston, maybe even Dallas. There will be some differences there but it will be close.

I disagree. The Jazz aren't a great team like the top tier teams, but they're a complete team that's super deep. They're basically the equivalent of Boston, just better. And don't forget that they were riddled with injuries last year. Their advanced stats, when healthy, were among the best in the league last season.

41 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

As for OKC, yes they lost Durant, but the quality of competition determines how much they drop off, and I don't think any of the teams outside the top 3 are great teams. The Thunder will undeniably be worse but there is still a lot of quality there, compared to rosters around them. With Westbrook, Oladipo, Kanter and Adams they have 4 fine starters. Westbrook is so good that he adds additional value , superstar value that none of the other teams in this second tier have.

I think you're really underestimating how big the drop off will be after losing Durant. Sure, none of the teams outside of the top 3 are great, but most of them held serve or got better while OKC took a huge step backwards. That's why I've got them in the 6 to 8 range. 

[Fez]

On 8/10/2016 at 6:49 PM, Relic said:

USA down to Aus by 5 at halftime. Interesting development. Not much passing for the USA this game. 

I understand why a lot of the top players aren't in the Olympics this year, especially LeBron and Curry. But its just embarrassing for these games to even be close (though tbf, only this one has been so far). They should all be blowouts except for the requisite gold medal match against Spain, which can be competitive; although this year less so it seems.