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Is There Anything On The Show That You Think Is Better Than The Books?

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49 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I would normally agree with you that you shouldn't let other people's opinions sway how you feel about the show; if you like it, that should be all that matters. In this case, though, it is rather different. Someone lacing their negative comments about the show with statements like 'GRRM doesn't even watch it anymore' is a very sneaky and cunning way of trying to prove that disliking the show is the correct stance to have. It's like saying 'if GRRM doesn't like it, then it must be crap'.

I mean, the one person in the world that's opinion on this show would have any kind of influence on how I feel about it would be George, because it's his story, after all. If the writer of the books the show is adapted from doesn't watch it, it suggests he doesn't like it, and if he doesn't like it, then I can't help but think I'd look at the show differently.

I don't think it is fair for anyone to try and back up their opinion on the show with George's opinion, especially if they themselves have only picked up George's opinion from internet sources they admit could be unreliable. Unless you have quotes from George to back it up, leave him out of it.

i get it. 

For me though, I just don’t care what GRRM thinks about the show. He could come out tomorrow and say its the greatest thing since sliced bread or the biggest piece of turd since the one he dropped after his last plate of nachos. Doesn’t matter. If someone wants to appeal to authority that is just a weak argument. 

Even arguing if its good or not seems to be a fool’s errand since what i have noticed is that between people who like the show and those who don’t there is no common set of criteria as to what is important. I have seen very good logical reasons why the show sucks and should be hated. I don’t feel that way. Why? My logical argument is just starting from a different set of core assumptions about what is important in a TV show. 

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5 minutes ago, StepStark said:

 

You make a lot of assumptions about my posts, which is even offensive to a degree. Especially because none of your assumptions are true, by the way. I wasn't backing my opinion of the show with GRRM's opinion. I dislike the show practically from the middle of the first season, and at that time GRRM loved the show. Even when I finally decided to start posting here, he was still in love with the show. So I don't need GRRM's opinion to form my own opinion of the show. And I definitely don't need GRRM's or anyone's opinion to back up my opinion of the show - the show's evident stupidity is all the support I need.

But you on the other hand seem to contradict yourself in that regard. First you say this:

And then couple of hours later you say this:

You couldn't be honest in both cases. GRRM not watching the show is either a strong indication, or isn't a strong indication. Make up your mind. Which one is it?

And just a suggestion: in the future, maybe it'd be best if you make up your mind about the subject you want to discuss with me, before you start making unfounded assumptions about why I said what I said.

Then my question is why mention whether he watched it or not? If it had no relevance to you or your opinion, I don't understand the point in bringing it up. From that, I can only assume that you were doing it to 'back up' your negative opinions, because if the writer doesn't watch it anymore, then the shown is useless.

I was being honest in both cases. There are people that don't like it yet watch it. You can hardly argue against that. At the same time, as I have said, George's opinion would have an effect on how a lot of people feel about it, myself included.

 

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5 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Just think of the ramifications if he were to come out and say he didn't watch it anymore. The show would lose any credibility it still has left in the eyes of book readers. It would even have an effect on the non-book readers, as anyone knows that if a writer doesn't like an adaptation based on his own work, it's usually a bad sign. Unless it's The Shining.

EW is obviously aware of the ramifications, so they rushed to prove that GRRM is supposedly watching the show, without any proof whatsoever. What does that say to you? Why is EW so jumpy? Why don't they actually investigate if GRRM is watching the show, instead of making unsubstantiated claims that put their "journalistic integrity" to shame?

I think it's because from day one HBO and their minions (EW) had very much to loose in this debate, unlike people like myself who are motivated only by their opinion of the show. So instead of investigating my motivations and despair, maybe you'd reach more interesting conclusions if you start investigating the motivations and the despair of HBO and EW and the rest of them. Just a suggestion.

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5 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Then my question is why mention whether he watched it or not? If it had no relevance to you or your opinion, I don't understand the point in bringing it up. From that, I can only assume that you were doing it to 'back up' your negative opinions, because if the writer doesn't watch it anymore, then the shown is useless.

I brought it up as only one of my points, not even the main one. And I brought it up because it's there. Just like I'm not running from the fact that until a season or two ago he loved the show.

He liked the show before. He doesn't any more. I just recognize those facts, I'm not making big deals out of them, but maybe you are.

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5 minutes ago, StepStark said:

EW is obviously aware of the ramifications, so they rushed to prove that GRRM is supposedly watching the show, without any proof whatsoever. What does that say to you? Why is EW so jumpy? Why don't they actually investigate if GRRM is watching the show, instead of making unsubstantiated claims that put their "journalistic integrity" to shame?

I think it's because from day one HBO and their minions (EW) had very much to loose in this debate, unlike people like myself who are motivated only by their opinion of the show. So instead of investigating my motivations and despair, maybe you'd reach more interesting conclusions if you start investigating the motivations and the despair of HBO and EW and the rest of them. Just a suggestion.

I think this is going into a different dimension altogether. I'm not talking about HBO and I only mentioned EW briefly. My only point here is that I think it is unfair to try and bring George's opinion into your posts unless they can be proven to be his true opinions. At the moment, he hasn't come out and said that he doesn't like the show or that he doesn't watch it. The points suggest he doesn't watch it like he used to, but there isn't enough concrete words coming from George himself to start using that in your comments.

As for your motivation and despair, I'm not questioning any points you raised, as I've mentioned a couple of times now. But whether or not I agree with your opinions, I still don't think you needed to throw whether George may or may not watch  the show into the equation. It looks to the outside like you are using it to back your points up. It may not be your motivation behind it, but that is how it looks.

4 minutes ago, StepStark said:

I brought it up as only one of my points, not even the main one. And I brought it up because it's there. Just like I'm not running from the fact that until a season or two ago he loved the show.

He liked the show before. He doesn't any more. I just recognize those facts, I'm not making big deals out of them, but maybe you are.

But it's not really there. You mention before that he once upon a time loved the show. It is a lot easier to find evidence that he once loved it than it is to find that he doesn't love it anymore, never mind that he doesn't even watch it.

 

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20 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

But it's not really there. You mention before that he once upon a time loved the show. It is a lot easier to find evidence that he once loved it than it is to find that he doesn't love it anymore, never mind that he doesn't even watch it.

Since you still insist on this issue, then I have to go along.

The strongest indication is EW's failure to provide any proof that he's still watching the show. They found no proof at all, even though they are in contact with him and in the past they never had any problem with getting a statement from him, but they still ran that article. That looks very desperate to me.

So while GRRM's opinion of the show isn't terribly important for my personal opinion, it becomes important in this discussion because of how desperate EW is to falsify it. And that also explains why it is a lot easier to find evidence that he once loved the show: of course it is, because nobody was trying to hide or distract from or falsify his opinion back then! In fact, even nowadays, when the question is does he even watch the show at all any more, EW is happy to remind us that he used to love the show (which should somehow make us believe that he's still loving it, I guess). And you still want to discuss my motivations and/or how do my claims look to outsiders?

I mean really, whatever happened to critical opinion? Are you really more interested in the way my points may looks to an outsider, than at the possible reasons why EW published such a misleading article?

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11 hours ago, StepStark said:

Vargo's ridiculous because of what exactly? Because of lisp? Or because of zorse?

And for some reason Locke, whose arc stopped making any sense the moment it departed from Vargo's role in the story, is not ridiculous? His hunt for Bran is... what.. intelligent? He enlists in the Night's Watch and swears an oath which is, you know, for life, and breaking of which is punishable by death - that makes sense to you? That's somehow smarter than Vargo Hoat and his story, which I don't see anything ridiculous about to be honest, unless you mean that his speech problem and/or his mount are ridiculous?

You'll notice that I said the character of Locke, not the character arc of Locke. I agree, there's nothing really to like about his arc after Harrenhal, but I'm not talking about that. He's an improvement over Hoat as a character, end of story. I find the character of Vargo Hoat to be ridiculous, and that's all-encompassing, so it includes his lisping, slobbering, et al. and yes, his zorse.

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6 hours ago, Joe Pesci said:

You'll notice that I said the character of Locke, not the character arc of Locke. I agree, there's nothing really to like about his arc after Harrenhal, but I'm not talking about that. He's an improvement over Hoat as a character, end of story. I find the character of Vargo Hoat to be ridiculous, and that's all-encompassing, so it includes his lisping, slobbering, et al. and yes, his zorse.

I remember that at the beginning of the show some viewers were saying that they prefer Dany in the show because she is more beautiful than in the books. Even if we put aside the fact that books are not a visual medium like TV, it was a really strange "opinion" because Dany is constantly described as beautiful in the books. So in effect those people were saying that Dany in the show is more beautiful than what they were imagining Dany as in their heads while reading the books. It was a failure of their imagination and not of the books really.

Sorry to say but your comment on Vargo falls into the same category. Not that something's necessarily wrong with that, except that you're trying to pass it as some objective judgement of Vargo and Locke as characters ("He's an improvement over Hoat as a character, end of story" - direct quote), when in fact there's nothing objective about it. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about Vargo because there are people in real life with the same speech problem he has. And while zorse doesn't exist in real life, it in no way stands out among the fauna of Planetos.

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5 hours ago, StepStark said:

And while zorse doesn't exist in real life, it in no way stands out among the fauna of Planetos.

Zorses do exist in real life and are pretty much the same as zorses in ASoIaF.

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I wasn't too bothered by them omitting Jaime's confession about Tysha.

Maybe i'm easily pleased but the note Tyrion/Jaime left on was really heart warming as that's probably my favorite relationship on the show and books - it's the one thing that humanizes Jaime at the start of the story and it carries on through out the series.

Mind you they did end up butchering Jaime's character for like 2 seasons; but pretending that didn't happen I really liked that scene.

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"The Watchers on the Wall" actually made me like Alliser Thorne. 

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Just now, Angel Eyes said:

"The Watchers on the Wall" actually made me like Alliser Thorne. 

The show really provided Alliser with two great moments. His death scene and the Watchers on the Wall. Really great stuff. 

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Posted (edited)

Repeat.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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StepStark’s commitment to hating Game of Thrones is truly impressive to behold. I’ve never seen anyone expend so much time, energy, and effort on something they so wholly despise since Hitler and the Jews. 

Edited by A Bong of Ice and Fire

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On 25/09/2017 at 6:26 PM, JordanJH1993 said:

At the same time, as I have said, George's opinion would have an effect on how a lot of people feel about it, myself included.

It shouldn't. If you would point at the least objective person about a certain work of art, it would probably be it's creator.

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I liked that the show streamlined the Greyjoys. They were tedious to read in the books.

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On 10/10/2017 at 9:26 PM, Apoplexy said:

I liked that the show streamlined the Greyjoys. They were tedious to read in the books.

Me too but I miss Vicky.  

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2 hours ago, Anythingatall said:

Me too but I miss Vicky.  

I didn't find Victarion's chapters all that interesting, but his stupidity made laugh :D

 

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