Daenerys's Fate and the Fire She Must Light to Love

[Paxter Redwyne]

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

From a narrative point of view Val bringing up Shireen's greyscale when there was actually no reason for that - they didn't discuss Shireen's wardrobe or her the state of her teeth, after all - we should keep that in mind. Why bring her sickness up at all if it doesn't matter?

I don't think Shireen will die off greyscale but I think the sickness will return for some reason and then she might be infectious. And the whole point of the three types of greyscale - children's disease, slow-killing adult version, and the grey plague - is that part of the preparation of some epidemic. Connington might suffer from the slow-killing adult version but could actually transmit the grey plague. The same could happen with Shireen.

To show how wildlings treat children with greyscale. I think it is simple as that. 

Again, someone would contract greyscale from her in those ten years if she was still infectious. Cressen and Selyse spent long time with her and seem ok (except one is dead and other is ugly). It is very likely that Jon Connington will start epidemy, but there is no reason to believe that Shireen will be involved in start of epidemy.

[Lord Varys]

11 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

To show how wildlings treat children with greyscale. I think it is simple as that. 

Again, someone would contract greyscale from her in those ten years if she was still infectious. Cressen and Selyse spent long time with her and seem ok (except one is dead and other is ugly). It is very likely that Jon Connington will start epidemy, but there is no reason to believe that Shireen will be involved in start of epidemy.

But we don't need to know how the wildlings treat children with greyscale unless that's important for the plot.

After Jon's talk with Val he realizes that Selyse does not kiss her daughter on her disfigured cheek.

Val claims Shireen's dormant greyscale will return and thus that's a possibility. We know greyscale is a common sickness (for some reason) in cold and damp places and Castle Black should get high scores in both those categories. The fact that maesters succeeded in stoping the sickness in children under the conditions the people in the Seven Kingdoms live in doesn't mean it is the same in the lands beyond the Wall. And if Shireen now lives in conditions that closer resemble those of the wildlings the sickness might return just as it does in wildling children.

[Paxter Redwyne]

Just now, Lord Varys said:

But we don't need to know how the wildlings treat children with greyscale unless that's important for the plot.

After Jon's talk with Val he realizes that Selyse does not kiss her daughter on her disfigured cheek.

Val claims Shireen's dormant greyscale will return and thus that's a possibility. We know greyscale is a common sickness (for some reason) in cold and damp places and Castle Black should get high scores in both those categories. The fact that maesters succeeded in stoping the sickness in children under the conditions the people in the Seven Kingdoms live in doesn't mean it is the same in the lands beyond the Wall. And if Shireen now lives in conditions that closer resemble those of the wildlings the sickness might return just as it does in wildling children.

We learned many things what had no impact on the plot. Not every single word has to mean something. We had Chett's backstory, tyroshi mercenaries who betrayed tywin in first novel, pointless brienne journey to whispers and some more.

Does this proof anything? If Shireen was infectious, Selyse would contract greyscale simply by being near her.

Val knows nothing about medicine. She isn't omniscient. Wildlings are backward and superstitious. And Shireen lived in damp place for ten years - Dragonstone. Wildlings kill every child who contracted greyscale, there were no children who survived greyscale beyond the wall. There is no proof that greyscale can reappear.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Wildlings are backward and superstitious

Free flok also seem to know things that the rest of Westeros don't know. The maesters for example deny the existence of the Others. That proves that the Free Folk knows more than the southerns.

[Paxter Redwyne]

2 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Free flok also seem to know things that the rest of Westeros don't know. The maesters for example deny the existence of the Others. That proves that the Free Folk knows more than the southerns.

They also don't distinguish mill from castle.

Free folk know much about living beyond wall but they are not good source of information about medicine. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

They also don't distinguish mill from castle.

Free folk know much about living beyond wall but they are not good source of information about medicine. 

That doesn't make them wrong, it's like lack of education while the masters knew that the Others were real and they even have one of their own at the Wall. But when a society who knows about magic and knows about gods and nature in a words full of magic say that something that we don't know how it was created is incurable I am incline to believe them.

[Paxter Redwyne]

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That doesn't make them wrong, it's like lack of education while the masters knew that the Others were real and they even have one of their own at the Wall. But when a society who knows about magic and knows about gods and nature in a words full of magic say that something that we don't know how it was created is incurable I am incline to believe them.

Greyscale is rather normal, not magical disease.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Greyscale is rather normal, not magical disease.

How do you know that?

[Free Northman Reborn]

Perhaps the intention was not to lay the groundwork for how the Free Folk might react to greyscale in general, but rather to lay the groundwork for how they will act towards Shirreen in future. Meaning establish a motivation for them to go along with her burning.

[Paxter Redwyne]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

How do you know that?

How do you know that greyscale is magical disease?

[JLE]

You don't set up a disease of this kind without it going to play *some* important role in the plot.

At some point, someone's going to set off an epidemic of it. (Jon Connington?)

And at some other point, given that it's supposed to be incurable, someone's going to be miraculously cured of it. (I really hope this is Shireen...)

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 minute ago, JLE said:

You don't set up a disease of this kind without it going to play *some* important role in the plot.

At some point, someone's going to set off an epidemic of it. (Jon Connington?)

And at some other point, given that it's supposed to be incurable, someone's going to be miraculously cured of it. (I really hope this is Shireen...)

The epidemic is of course needed in the densely populated South, for plot reasons. It is pretty pointless in the North. The Free Folk are already all but wiped out, and the North itself is pretty sparsely populated already. An excess of people is not a problem faced by the story in the North. In fact, Martin is searching for ways to bring MORE people into the Northern storyline - whether they be Skagosi, 20k Stannis sellswords, Mountain Clansmen, Manderly recruits or crofters from the depths of the Wolfswood.

A greyscale pandemic in the North is not something that the plot needs at this point. But in the South it has delicious potential indeed.

[rotting sea cow]

2 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Greyscale is rather normal, not magical disease.

Greyscale is Garin's curse, strongly associated to water magic. I could easily believe that it behaves different north of the Wall than south of it.

JonCon greyscale will make him to make rush decisions and commit atrocities to speed up the victory. But it is also very likely that an epidemic of it will come to thrice cursed Westeros.

Shirin greyscale may do the same, at least it will produce weird results in the speculated fire sacrifice of a desperate Stannis

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

Greyscale is Garin's curse, strongly associated to water magic. I could easily believe that it behaves different north of the Wall than south of it.

JonCon greyscale will make him to make rush decisions and commit atrocities to speed up the victory. But it is also very likely that an epidemic of it will come to thrice cursed Westeros.

Shirin greyscale may do the same, at least it will produce weird results in the speculated fire sacrifice of a desperate Stannis

I can perhaps see how Shirreen is burned in the Shadow Tower, resulting in some magical effect which becomes the "Great Stone Beast taking wing from a smoking tower, and breathing Shadow Fire".

But even so, I don't see the point of a pandemic in the already sparsely populated North.

[Paxter Redwyne]

Just now, rotting sea cow said:

Greyscale is Garin's curse, strongly associated to water magic. I could easily believe that it behaves different north of the Wall than south of it.

JonCon greyscale will make him to make rush decisions and commit atrocities to speed up the victory. But it is also very likely that an epidemic of it will come to thrice cursed Westeros.

Shirin greyscale may do the same, at least it will produce weird results in the speculated fire sacrifice of a desperate Stannis

Garin's curse is legend. We can't know for sure if greyscale was result of water magic. This disease could exist before.

[rotting sea cow]

1 minute ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Garin's curse is legend. We can't know for sure if greyscale was result of water magic. This disease could exist before.

The Others are also a legend, as well as Snarks and Grumkins.

[Black Crow]

I have a recollection - no more than that so can't quote chapter and verse - that GRRM said something about disease playing a big part in the books to come, but there was nothing specific as to whether it was the inevitable pestilence that rhymes with war or whether it was referencing greyscale.

[Paxter Redwyne]

Just now, rotting sea cow said:

The Others are also a legend, as well as Snarks and Grumkins.

Do we see any Snarks and Grumkins?

[Clegane'sPup]

10 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I can perhaps see how Shirreen is burned in the Shadow Tower, resulting in some magical effect which becomes the "Great Stone Beast taking wing from a smoking tower, and breathing Shadow Fire".

Why pray tell is Stannis' daughter gonna be at Shadow Tower?

[rotting sea cow]

1 minute ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Do we see any Snarks and Grumkins?

My point precisely. Tyrion japes with Jeor Mormont about Snarks and Grumpkins in tGoT, when The Others are showing up. He does the same with JonCon's party in the Rhoyne, "nah, Garin's cuse is just grayscale, a common disease caused by foul humors, not curses" 

(I always entertained the idea that Tyrion will have to deal with Snarks and Grumpkins in one or the other way, full circle)