long night (spoilers)

[Clegane'sPup]

In GoT Tyrion c.21 LC Mormont tells Tyrion

"Denys Mallister writes that the mountain people are moving south, slipping past the Shadow Tower in numbers greater than ever before. They are running, my lord … but running from what?" Lord Mormont moved to the window and stared out into the night. "These are old bones, Lannister, but they have never felt a chill like this. Tell the king what I say, I pray you. Winter is coming, and when the Long Night falls, only the Night's Watch will stand between the realm and the darkness that sweeps from the north. The gods help us all if we are not ready."

 

The last Long Night according to legend lasted a generation.  That’s a mighty long period of darkness. The day light is slipping away in Westeros. The temperature growing colder. War and lawlessness has ravaged the country side. The Citadel has sent out the white ravens to announce that winter has arrived.

I’m wondering if I have been focusing on small things like characters scheme’s & dealings and not looking at the bigger picture. I, apparently like the citizens of Westeros did not take heed to Mormont's words, “Winter is coming, and when the Long Night falls, only the Night's Watch will stand between the realm and the darkness that sweeps from the north.”

1)What I’m trying to get at is, will Westeros actually experience darkness, lack of sunshine for a long stretch of time? Every day 24 hours of darkness. Only fires, torches and candles to light the way. No sunshine or warmth for crops or animals or humanity.

2)As noted in the opening quote, in GoT the wildlings had been slipping past Shadow Tower. So I’m wondering that when the heart of winter arrives, when it is so cold it hurts to breathe with days of total darkness couldn’t the Others simply do what the wildlings did and merely slip past the Wall?

3)When this Long Night arrives which one of the character is going to be the hero? According to legend the last hero sought out the CotF, the NW formed and beat back the Others to win the battle for dawn. I know that the CotF still live, but people in story do not. I know that the Others exist but only a handful of people in story know they are wandering around.

I’ve got a bunch of questions flapping around in my head but I guess the main one is do you think Martin will have Westeros spend a lengthy period of time in total darkness?

In the real world I’m more of a listener than a talker. On the internet I more of a reader than a keyboarder.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think we have too many accounts of it being actually dark for that not to happen. At least I am hoping it will happen. I like the idea of it being dark for an extended period. 

I don't think the Others can pass the wall, with it's warding spells. So I think that it would have to come down for them to get into the rest of Westeros. Uh Oh! 

 

[Bluetiger]

If you're interested in stuff related to the Long Night, I really recommend LML's Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire essays - https://lucifermeanslightbringer.com

[LynnS]

I compare it to the arctic winter; where night is 24 hours a day.  Only in Westeros if you have a long summer; then the winter is equally long and the random seeming nature of the length of the winter/summer cycle seems to be understood by the Citadel.  They get that information, I suppose by keeping track of the stars and taking astronomical measurements; so they to know when to expect winter and send the white ravens.  That would be data collected by long observation.  So I go back to @LML theories of a comet impact or meteor impacts that may have affected Planetos by introducing a wobble on the axis.  In turn affecting the length or summer/winters in a seemingly random pattern..

When there is a particularly long summer/winter cycle; that creates the conditions for the whatever force (killing cold; white walkers)  comes out of the North.  The long night or the long period cycle of 8 to 12,000 years.

[Clegane'sPup]

Thanks for sharing you thoughts.

I'm thinking I should have put this on WoW forum. Maybe the mods will move it. I tried to shape the opening post in general manner. It had not occurred to me that a long night might actually take shape on page. When I read what LC Mormont told Tyrion in GoT I had one of those 'wait a minute moments."

WoW spoiler in reveal tab.

Spoiler

The Forsaken is a dark chapter, but there are a lot of dark chapters in TWOW right now. Winter is when things die. Cold and ice and darkness fills the world. This is not going to be the happy feel good book that people may be hoping for. Some of the characters are in very dark places. Things are getting worse for a lot of people.

 

[kissdbyfire]

I think there will be total darkness, much as @LynnS said, similar to an Artic Winter. But regarding the WW being able to pass south of the Wall, what if the wards are not working anymore, due to the NW not being true anymore? 

[Free Northman Reborn]

On 2016/12/04 at 6:53 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

I’ve got a bunch of questions flapping around in my head but I guess the main one is do you think Martin will have Westeros spend a lengthy period of time in total darkness?

No. I do not think the Long Night was an actual period of 20 year total darkness. I think it was a 20 year Winter, with total darkness north of the polar circle, and very short days in Northern latitudes. But I don't think the sun was literally gone for 20 years, other than in the Arctic.

Note that even in the height of Summer, even the Wall does not get 24 hour daylight. Hence, I don't think it will get 24 hour darkness in Winter either.

[Voice]

On December 4, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Clegane'sPup said:

1)What I’m trying to get at is, will Westeros actually experience darkness, lack of sunshine for a long stretch of time? Every day 24 hours of darkness. Only fires, torches and candles to light the way. No sunshine or warmth for crops or animals or humanity.

 

Yes. 

But like the Karstark sigil, I suspect a winter sun will still be visible. 

And in addition to fires, the Red Comet will provide light. 

 

On December 4, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Clegane'sPup said:

2)As noted in the opening quote, in GoT the wildlings had been slipping past Shadow Tower. So I’m wondering that when the heart of winter arrives, when it is so cold it hurts to breathe with days of total darkness couldn’t the Others simply do what the wildlings did and merely slip past the Wall?

 

You mistake the origin and purpose and composition of the Wall, methinks. 

When ice winds blow snowdrifts hundreds of feet deep... and the Others walk lightly upon the snow, leaving no footprints... the Wall is just one more incline of frozen water... which is the Others' native habitat. 

The Wall blocks Wargs, not the Others. 

 

On December 4, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Clegane'sPup said:

3)When this Long Night arrives which one of the character is going to be the hero? According to legend the last hero sought out the CotF, the NW formed and beat back the Others to win the battle for dawn. I know that the CotF still live, but people in story do not. I know that the Others exist but only a handful of people in story know they are wandering around.

 

Only Dawn can end the Night. And Jon is the Sword of the Morning. 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

No. I do not think the Long Night was an actual period of 20 year total darkness. I think it was a 20 year Winter, with total darkness north of the polar circle, and very short days in Northern latitudes. But I don't think the sun was literally gone for 20 years, other than in the Arctic.

Note that even in the height of Summer, even the Wall does not get 24 hour daylight. Hence, I don't think it will get 24 hour darkness in Winter either.

I'm curious. 20 years is a generation? If as the legends suggest the long night is total darkness what is gonna happen in Westeros? No sun and only fires, torches and candles to light the way. I'm being serious. As much as I dislike the question I'm gonna ask it anyway. Did you even bother to read the opening post?

 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Voice said:

text

I appreciate your response. I'm one of those people who read Martin's books that thinks he wrote a story. I don't look for obscure references.

Think about it. A superstitious population. A people much like ourselves in days gone by. A comet blazes across the sky. An eclipse of the sun looming on the horizon.  If that eclipse happens, a period of total darkness for certain amount of time people will go ape shite. It was I assume a scary thing to watch the sun disappear. Without the sun people can't survive unless of course we have all the scientific gadgets.

Back to the books. Am I reading a fantasy story about about knights, kings, myths and mystical creatures or am I reading a science fiction story?

 

[Voice]

1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I appreciate your response. I'm one of those people who read Martin's books that thinks he wrote a story. I don't look for obscure references.

Think about it. A superstitious population. A people much like ourselves in days gone by. A comet blazes across the sky. An eclipse of the sun looming on the horizon.  If that eclipse happens, a period of total darkness for certain amount of time people will go ape shite. It was I assume a scary thing to watch the sun disappear. Without the sun people can't survive unless of course we have all the scientific gadgets.

Back to the books. Am I reading a fantasy story about about knights, kings, myths and mystical creatures or am I reading a science fiction story?

 

 

I offered no obscure references in my post, nor any allusions to scifi. I quite agree with your response to my post in truth, yet am left wondering if you read my own. LOL

[Clegane'sPup]

8 minutes ago, Voice said:

 

I offered no obscure references in my post, nor any allusions to scifi. I quite agree with your response to my post in truth, yet am left wondering if you read my own. LOL

 

2 hours ago, Voice said:

 

Yes. 

But like the Karstark sigil, I suspect a winter sun will still be visible. 

And in addition to fires, the Red Comet will provide light. 

 

 

You mistake the origin and purpose and composition of the Wall, methinks. 

When ice winds blow snowdrifts hundreds of feet deep... and the Others walk lightly upon the snow, leaving no footprints... the Wall is just one more incline of frozen water... which is the Others' native habitat. 

The Wall blocks Wargs, not the Others. 

 

 

Only Dawn can end the Night. And Jon is the Sword of the Morning. 

I agree you offered no obscure references.

[Voice]

13 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

 

I agree you offered no obscure references.

 

Each point is supported by walls of text, and these walls happen to answer your questions in the OP. But to each his own. 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Voice said:

 

Each point is supported by walls of text, and these walls happen to answer your questions in the OP. But to each his own. 

Except you and I have not exchanged ideas or thoughts .Am I to assume that http://thelasthearth.com/thread/386/ice-dawn-updated

speaks for you?

[The Fattest Leech]

5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think there will be total darkness, much as @LynnS said, similar to an Artic Winter. But regarding the WW being able to pass south of the Wall, what if the wards are not working anymore, due to the NW not being true anymore? 

The more I re-read things and piece together bits of information, the more this seems to be very plausible. The NW men have forgotten their vows, as the readers are told over and over, and the biggest kick to the irony balls is the mutineers stabbing Jon "for the watch", when what they did was to help kickstart the wall's downfall (literally or metaphorically). Oh Marsh, you silly pomegranate, you

To the OP, I tend to think it will be full darkness most of the world over, with maybe some southern regions that have some filtered light. There are just too many tales in the story that say so. Even if it is filtered light in some areas, there should still be a "day/night" rotation that will allow several hours of "night" and it will still be scary as hell as Tormund describes.

• "Oh, my sweet summer child," Old Nan said quietly, "what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods."
  "You mean the Others," Bran said querulously.
• "Tormund," Jon said, as they watched four old women pull a cartful of children toward the gate, "tell me of our foe. I would know all there is to know of the Others."

  The wildling rubbed his mouth. "Not here," he mumbled, "not this side o' your Wall." The old man glanced uneasily toward the trees in their white mantles. "They're never far, you know. They won't come out by day, not when that old sun's shining, but don't think that means they went away. Shadows never go away. Might be you don't see them, but they're always clinging to your heels."

  "Did they trouble you on your way south?"

  "They never came in force, if that's your meaning, but they were with us all the same, nibbling at our edges. We lost more outriders than I care to think about, and it was worth your life to fall behind or wander off. Every nightfall we'd ring our camps with fire. They don't like fire much, and no mistake. When the snows came, though … snow and sleet and freezing rain, it's bloody hard to find dry wood or get your kindling lit, and the cold … some nights our fires just seemed to shrivel up and die. Nights like that, you always find some dead come the morning. 'Less they find you first. The night that Torwynd … my boy, he …' Tormund turned his face away.

  "I know," said Jon Snow.

   

[Clegane'sPup]

38 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

To the OP, I tend to think it will be full darkness most of the world over, with maybe some southern regions that have some filtered light. There are just too many tales in the story that say so.

You think that  Martin will put the long night on page?

[The Fattest Leech]

21 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

You think that  Martin will put the long night on page?

I think so. I think it has been slowly creeping in and the recent actions at the wall have been a catalyst. I think things will freeze over down to the Trident (those rivers have been swelling like crazy for a while) and the major battle will take place there. One example of the LN already creeping in is this from the World book:

• However, if this fell winter did take place, as the tales say, the privation would have been terrible to behold. During the hardest winters, it is customary for the oldest and most infirm amongst the northmen to claim they are going out hunting—knowing full well they will never return and thus leaving a little more food for those likelier to survive. Doubtless this practice was common during the Long Night.

We see/hear this happening with Manderly and his rag tag team of silver bad asses going to Winterfell. On the surface what seems like something really honorable is happening (it kinda is), it is also a noted sign of what happened before. Kinda two meanings in one.

I will leave it there