LordMiddleFinger

Stannis and the Battle of Winterfell

44 posts in this topic

On 2/2/2017 at 2:11 AM, Ice Spider said:

Wildlings had much more men, and I am not sure where you get the idea either did better than the other. 

1. Wildlings had 2,000 men. It's mentioned like 10 times before "The Battle of the Bastards". 
   "and I am not sure where you get the idea either did better than the other."

2. Well how about the fact that the wildlings killed a bunch of Bolton soldiers ( because not only did we get to see them fighting and killing Bolton men, we also saw that nice, big pile of corpses in the background. Some wildlings yes, a lot of horses yes, but also a lot of Bolton men. )

 In the show they made it look like Stannis was the only one who actually was able to kill some Bolton soldiers. 
I said it like 2-3 times already in my previous posts but I'll say it again..
 
Before the Battle of Winterfell in season 5, Bolton forces: 5,000 men. After the battle of Winterfell between Stannis and his men and the Boltons, Bolton forces.... 5,000 men! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly the fact that the men deserted him, especially them being mercenaries is such a bull shit idea. These are guys that are killers, most likely guys that rape when they conquerer cities and what not, why would these guys desert him?

 

 

Edited by Nocturne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, LordMiddleFinger said:

 LMFAO! This made my day. BTW i think that Dany "Der Fuhrer" got this technology from Varys in season 6. Her army of 100,000 is sailing towards Westeros on 100-200 ships. 200 ships can carry maybe 30,000 at best! They probably used the Ironborn tech to make more ships... Euron should sue! 

Yeah. Numbers do not matter to the creators on the show, only the results apparently.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Ahhh, we expect no logic from this show, and yes GRRM, if he can muster the fortitude to finish, will give us the story with logic to make it so, until then, we are in the the world of Weiseroff (Weis/Benioff) and not Westeros.

Sadly, you're right.

Concerning figures, I could propose Ramsey's 20 good men. Should be enough to wipe Stannis whole army.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Sadly, you're right.

Concerning figures, I could propose Ramsey's 20 good men. Should be enough to wipe Stannis whole army.

But not one captured, wounded or identified? However, more plausible than what might be happening this season to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Sadly, you're right.

Concerning figures, I could propose Ramsey's 20 good men. Should be enough to wipe Stannis whole army.

Oh, He only needed 20 good men to defeat the best commander of Westeros. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems pretty obvious due to a number of reasons mainly D&D opening their big mouths of Shireen coming from George that Stannis will take down the Boltons and BOTB never happen. So what they should of done is cut the IB plot from 4 to set up Davos/Wyman with Davos going to save Arya in place of Rickon. The with Stannis push back the Shireen plot an have him take down the Boltons in 5 with a fallout with Stannis ruling WF vs Jon and the Wildlings vs and Sansa an the Vale being the conflict for 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, LordMiddleFinger said:

1. Wildlings had 2,000 men. It's mentioned like 10 times before "The Battle of the Bastards". 
   "and I am not sure where you get the idea either did better than the other."


2. Well how about the fact that the wildlings killed a bunch of Bolton soldiers ( because not only did we get to see them fighting and killing Bolton men, we also saw that nice, big pile of corpses in the background. Some wildlings yes, a lot of horses yes, but also a lot of Bolton men. )

 In the show they made it look like Stannis was the only one who actually was able to kill some Bolton soldiers. 
I said it like 2-3 times already in my previous posts but I'll say it again..
 
Before the Battle of Winterfell in season 5, Bolton forces: 5,000 men. After the battle of Winterfell between Stannis and his men and the Boltons, Bolton forces.... 5,000 men! 

If your going to quote me, get your facts straight, My reference was to the Battle North of the Wall, not when the "remnants" of the Wildling Army was in the Battle of the Bastards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, LordMiddleFinger said:

  Her army of 100,000 is sailing towards Westeros on 100-200 ships. 200 ships can carry maybe 30,000 at best!

In the year 1281 the Mongols tried (and failed) to invade Japan with 25 000 warriors (each with 3 or 4 horses) aboard 900 vessels. 

Daenerys army would have needed thousands of ships. But you can't expect the show to be 100% realistic, the idea is "a multitude of ships" and that's what it showed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

It seems pretty obvious due to a number of reasons mainly D&D opening their big mouths of Shireen coming from George that Stannis will take down the Boltons and BOTB never happen. So what they should of done is cut the IB plot from 4 to set up Davos/Wyman with Davos going to save Arya in place of Rickon. The with Stannis push back the Shireen plot an have him take down the Boltons in 5 with a fallout with Stannis ruling WF vs Jon and the Wildlings vs and Sansa an the Vale being the conflict for 6

I don't believe Stannis will be defeated on the field outside WF. Manderly and the Freys, the "North remembers", the lake and the holes in the ice, the influential Lady Dustin and her hatred of Ramsey... Much is against the Boltons.

I would believe the BoB is pure D&D invention. They wanted it as bad as the RW. They used the Battle of WF, but they wrapped everything for it. And they made both Jon and Sansa look bad and stupid in the bargain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 6:02 PM, Nowy Tends said:

In the year 1281 the Mongols tried (and failed) to invade Japan with 25 000 warriors (each with 3 or 4 horses) aboard 900 vessels. 

Daenerys army would have needed thousands of ships. But you can't expect the show to be 100% realistic, the idea is "a multitude of ships" and that's what it showed.

Agreed but I think the show will probably write it as she lost much of them in storms or something on the way. Then again, I may be giving the show too much credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 6:16 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

I don't believe Stannis will be defeated on the field outside WF. Manderly and the Freys, the "North remembers", the lake and the holes in the ice, the influential Lady Dustin and her hatred of Ramsey... Much is against the Boltons.

I would believe the BoB is pure D&D invention. They wanted it as bad as the RW. They used the Battle of WF, but they wrapped everything for it. And they made both Jon and Sansa look bad and stupid in the bargain.

A quality post. I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 1:00 AM, LordMiddleFinger said:

1. Wildlings had 2,000 men. It's mentioned like 10 times before "The Battle of the Bastards". 
   "and I am not sure where you get the idea either did better than the other."

2. Well how about the fact that the wildlings killed a bunch of Bolton soldiers ( because not only did we get to see them fighting and killing Bolton men, we also saw that nice, big pile of corpses in the background. Some wildlings yes, a lot of horses yes, but also a lot of Bolton men. )

 In the show they made it look like Stannis was the only one who actually was able to kill some Bolton soldiers. 
I said it like 2-3 times already in my previous posts but I'll say it again..
 
Before the Battle of Winterfell in season 5, Bolton forces: 5,000 men. After the battle of Winterfell between Stannis and his men and the Boltons, Bolton forces.... 5,000 men! 

don't mix HBO and the books never works 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2017 at 0:54 AM, Ice Spider said:

If your going to quote me, get your facts straight, My reference was to the Battle North of the Wall, not when the "remnants" of the Wildling Army was in the Battle of the Bastards. 

 
 No offense but there's no reason to get upset. We are talking about "The Battle of Winterfell" in "Mother's Mercy". You didn't make it very clear that you were talking about the Battle North of the Wall. Maybe i didn't catch get and if that is the case than all i can say is, my bad, glad we got this sorted out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2017 at 1:02 AM, Nowy Tends said:

In the year 1281 the Mongols tried (and failed) to invade Japan with 25 000 warriors (each with 3 or 4 horses) aboard 900 vessels. 

Daenerys army would have needed thousands of ships. But you can't expect the show to be 100% realistic, the idea is "a multitude of ships" and that's what it showed.

 
They should've at least tried to make it seem more believable. Back in season 3 or 4 Ser Barristan and Jorah were not even sure if her 8,000 Unsullied and 2,000 Second Sons could fit on her 96 ships she had at the time. Now 200 ships is enough for her 100,000 + Army. Would it be that hard to have someone state that Olenna Tyrell provided Dany with 200-300 ships and "Yara" had like 50 of her own. Dorne had 100 ( yeah i know this would be BS in the books but the show creators don't care about the books anyway ) and the ships she stole from the Masters, idk... 50-100 tops. That's 550 ships ( at best ). Still not nearly enough but i could live with that.

Edited by LordMiddleFinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, LordMiddleFinger said:

 
 No offense but there's no reason to get upset. We are talking about "The Battle of Winterfell" in "Mother's Mercy". You didn't make it very clear that you were talking about the Battle North of the Wall. Maybe i didn't catch get and if that is the case than all i can say is, my bad, glad we got this sorted out.

???

 

For starters, look no further than the battle between Stannis's men vs the Wildlings. Even Tormund commented on how they wildlings did not stand a chance against a mounted force "They rode through us like butter".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the 100,000 figure coming from? And we don't know how many ships there are - only that there's "enough, just".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I would of rather had Stannis been assassinated or tripped on his sword than watch that pathetic battle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that the writers were determined to write Stannis out of the show and gave the more heroic aspects of his Northern story arc to Jon, a character they clearly like more. Unless you think it's a coincidence that season 5 climaxes with Stannis attacking Winterfell with no support, season 6 climaxing with Jon attacking Winterfell with Northern and Wildling support, and the novels left off with Stannis marching on Winterfell with Northern and Wildling support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

As far as number are concerned they are one of the most difficult things to ascertain in war.  First off, remember that GRRM is a great fan of history, now for a historical example.  George Gordon Meade was in command of the Army of the Potomac in the American Civil War, placed in command a few days before Gettysburg.  At that Battle he fought the Army of Northern Virginia.  Meade commanded (as of 30 June 1863 112,812 men) at the Battle some 93,693 of those men would be on the field engaged.  Now after the debacles of 1862, when the Pinkerton Detective Agency had been employed to determine the strength of the Army of Northern Virginia and it had vastly overrated the strength of that army the Union had put together the Bureau of Military Intelligence.  This was an office that specifically worked on developing Orders of Battle for the Confederate Army through scouting reports and intelligence gained by Cavalry units, interviewing Confederate deserters and prisoners as well as through spies.  They were good at their job however they weren't perfect.  Meade fought the battle believing that the Army of Northern Virginia slightly outnumbered him.  Meanwhile the true strength of Lee's Army was (on 30 June) 79,880 with some 70136 men actually engaged in the battle.  BTW, it wasn't just Meade who overestimated his opponent, Confederate estimates for the Union strength went over 120,000.  So it is entirely consistent that the numbers that GRRM or the D&D give are not accurate, rather they are estimates and often inaccurate estimates at that.  BTW, if we go by the Books remember that GRRM has said repeatedly that not everything that a character says in the books is true, sometimes it's a lie, sometimes it's simply a mistake.  I see no reason why that wouldn't extend to the series as well.

Edited by Byfort of Corfe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.