Ice Queen Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Swordfish said: I'm also sort of fascinated by the lefts obsession with the alt right in general, given their mostly minuscule numbers, and overall political insignificance, Bannon or no Bannon. Stop calling it the alt right. Call them what they are: white supremacists and Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Week said: The 150 supposed rioters of which there is no information that I've seen to identify who they were or where they were from. Unless there is a source that I'm missing, anything else is a personal assumption. Sorry, I don't understand what this sentence means. And.... "supposed rioters'? Are you denying there was rioting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tijgy said: The problem is that in both instances the EU would never be able to act with unity because they will never be able to agree on what they should do about this (just like a lot of other important things). And it is not even decided if those trade agreements should be ratified by each country. Will every country do this? Or are you going to impose a trade deal only made in the Union without the on some countries which didn't completely agree? CETA even almost failed (and we are not sure it will succeed) and that is not as sensitive as trade deal with a ex-member state or a deal with someone as Trump. Maybe I am too cynical but I am seeing currently the two parts of my country not agreeing with each other on the Brexit (and maybe even Trump). As far as I know, every country has a veto right during the brexit negotiations. Your country couldn't even agree on a goverment for almost two years back in 2010 (?). I don't mean to pick on Belgium, but the Vallon Flanders conflict is not particularly new. Generally speaking, I tend to be more optimistic about the future of Europe. And especially in the deal with Britain the EU has way more bargaining power (financial passport). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Milo is a terrible white nationalist considering he dates black men almost exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Couldn't agree more. Especially when you're talking about provocative trolls like Milo. This guy has no meat in his message. He's a human mustard burp. Momentarily tangy then lost in the air. Bill Hader does a more nuanced catty gay guy in 5 minute soundbites on SNL. If we ignore the hack, he will go away. Yep. 3 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Well, what they did was wrong, but I don't want them to die. They've been causing problems for years. But to say it again: Milo's extreme right wing, white supremacist views should not be tolerated. He's deliberately trying to inflame and incite with his hateful rhetoric. And you can't expect college kids to have the maturity of older adults. You'd better believe that Milo is well aware of that. I agree. All the more reason to simply ignore him. 2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Stop calling it the alt right. Call them what they are: white supremacists and Nazis. I don't think I've ever really felt compelled to refer to them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said: Be careful with this point of view. This is not a road I want to take this country down. Tolerance matters to democracy. Yes it does, but let's ask the Germans about that. How far and how long do you tolerate hate before you fight back? Or do you let it continue until you're in the grip of a national nightmare because we stood by and did nothing in the name of tolerance? Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Samantha Stark said: Milo is a terrible white nationalist considering he dates black men almost exclusively. THIS. He can't even get his own doctrine straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo Crumbs Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Seli said: Yes. Of course as far as I can remember the GOP has hardly shown any for the last few decades. Why should people who disagree with them act differently? Because that's unconstructive tit for tat. It's very dangerous to take democracy for granted, even American democracy. Especially American democracy, because it's unique in many ways and it would be a shame for the world to lose it. Say "screw tolerance" to enough people and in a generation or two someone more powerful will be saying the same thing to your liberal kids and grandkids, except they'll be on the losing side. This is why the 1st Amendment protects freedom of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Sorry, I don't understand what this sentence means. And.... "supposed rioters'? Are you denying there was rioting? No response to the remainder - just further defense of white nationalists. Fun. eta- supposed *student rioters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Samantha Stark said: Milo is a terrible white nationalist considering he dates black men almost exclusively. How many black friends does he have and at what number does it excuse his behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said: Because that's unconstructive tit for tat. It's very dangerous to take democracy for granted, even American democracy. Especially American democracy, because it's unique in many ways and it would be a shame for the world to lose it. Say "screw tolerance" to enough people and in a generation or two someone more powerful will be saying the same thing to your liberal kids and grandkids, except they'll be on the losing side. This is why the 1st Amendment protects freedom of expression. You do realize that current US government is all ready to legislate "screw tolerance" to the ideals of equality that seem so important and natural to our younger generations? And at the same time trying to embed that attitude in SCOTUS? Decades of being polite and tolerant, asking for others to be the same has gotten nothing but people claiming equality, freedom, social justice are all evil and oppressive. And getting that attitude in government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo Crumbs Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: Yes it does, but let's ask the Germans about that. How far and how long do you tolerate hate before you fight back? Or do you let it continue until you're in the grip of a national nightmare because we stood by and did nothing in the name of tolerance? Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Fair point, and this is why Trump is such a big threat. Because he represents hate, fear and intolerance in a position of power. We absolutely must fight his intolerance but not being intolerant ourselves, because then your close-minded ideology replaces his close-minded ideology and no progress has been made at all. Fire doesn't beat fire, water does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Swordfish said: 'Were burned down' is not supported by the content of the link. Are we really going to play the technicality game? Trump ran on a white nationalist platform and since his victory we've seen a lot of instances of violence and threats of violence directed towards minority groups that white nationalist traditionally loath. And as someone who comes from one of those groups, I can tell you I've seen this before, and like @Mexal said, it's terrifying. Also, I think it's fair to assume that the first example was a case of arson. They've determined the cause already and if it was anything other then arson they'd have made that public quickly to tamp down any fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: The protesters need a new playbook here. This was beyond unnecessary, it was just plain stupid. How many people do you think are going to show up for a Milo speech at Berkeley? 200? Put him in a large auditorium and tape how anemic the crowd looks, that would be more damaging to his brand. The one legit card this one note joke has to play is the one the protesters hand him. This was a similar playbook to Seattle - where a number of anarchists armed with crowbars and wearing masks came and disrupted everything. It sucks. I'm not sure what the right strategy to deal with it is, but perhaps simply ignoring Milo is the right call and let the anarchists duel it out on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Week said: How many black friends does he have and at what number does it excuse his behavior? His behavior? You mean using the right to free speech? Not having left wing views? By generalization of him and the people that attend his events as racist you are one of the people who created the alt right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 27 minutes ago, Week said: How many black friends does he have and at what number does it excuse his behavior? There's a difference between "defending white nationalists" and pointing out that these sorts of protests play right into their hands. How much press do you suppose this event would've received minus the protest? How many people do you suppose are going to show up for a Milo speech in Berkeley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 And by the way, it's always antifa and other left wing goons that incite violence at these things. Funny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Just now, Samantha Stark said: His behavior? You mean using the right to free speech? Not having left wing views? By generalization of him and the people that attend his events as racist you are one of the people who created the alt right. I didn't create white nationalists and nazis - they've existed and come out of the woodwork since *45. And yes, his behavior: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-america-divided/milo-yiannopoulos/https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/twitter-bans-milo-yiannopoulos/492140/http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yiannopoulos-harassed-a-trans-student-at-uw-milwaukee.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said: Fair point, and this is why Trump is such a big threat. Because he represents hate, fear and intolerance in a position of power. We absolutely must fight his intolerance but not being intolerant ourselves, because then your close-minded ideology replaces his close-minded ideology and no progress has been made at all. Fire doesn't beat fire, water does. That's a fair point also. So how do you do that, exactly? Sit ins aren't going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Just now, Samantha Stark said: And by the way, it's always antifa and other left wing goons that incite violence at these things. Funny that. No, it isn't always - but it was in Seattle, and it was in Berkeley. These aren't random stories; they are based on eyewitness testimony, video evidence and public statements. The west coast in particular has a real problem with these people - they've done this in Seattle with the WTO riots, a couple times in Eugene and Portland, a couple times on west coast Trump rallies. It sucks. I don't claim that they're paid off by the right wing or false flags or anything like that - but I do, absolutely, assert that they have nothing to do with Berkeley or UW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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