US Politics: Papers, Please

[Mexal]

6 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I'm not downplaying anything.  This is a failure in your critical thinking skills.

of course it isn't ok, I never suggested it was.

But if you want to pin this on Trump, simply saying 'it happened 57 times in January' is not sufficient.  This isn't rocket science.  For all I know, it could have happened 700 times last January.  Which I would hope you would agree changes the point you are attempting to make quite dramatically.

 A single data point here is not sufficient to make the logical leap you are making.

Ok. It has nothing to do with Trump or his followers. It's random until proven otherwise.

Still happening, communities of people are still scared and it's still fucked up.

[Tijgy]

1 hour ago, Notone said:

Deliberate. Trump's foreign policy and trade deals is based on divide and rule. If the US were to negotiate with countries seperately, they would have more leverage (bigger market) and more manpower to handle negotiations. If you follow that logic, it's really not that surprising that he is happy about Brexit. And that's also why he sends negotiators to deal with the TPP countries seperately. I am somewhat curious if the Canadians will play ball with regards to NAFTA and Mexico.

I think Brexit is more dangerous for the EU than Trump. 

Or at least from the perspective from someone from Flanders/Belgium. Last/this week Flemish business men made a report that without a good trade deal Flanders would lose a lot of money. For this reason Flemish businesses want to have a friendly trade-Brexit with no new import deals, ... Also our Minister-President was more concerned after the Brexit about the trade relation between Flanders and England than condemning the Brexit like a lot of the rest European Leaders did. 

So I am actually really concerned if some European Leaders will more concerned about punishing Britain about choosing to leave the EU than thinking about protecting trade, other European countries/regions would be very unhappy and scared about their trade and would actually believe the EU is very detrimental, especially if you remember what happened with CETA.*

* Yeah, I know. The one being difficult was a Walloon, the other part of Belgium.  Not responsible for him...  

[OldGimletEye]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/02/how-germany-was-able-to-win-globalization-but-the-united-states-was-not/

 

Quote

This past week, the focus turned to Germany, a U.S. ally that the Trump administration seems to regard as a frenemy. On Tuesday, top trade adviser Peter Navarro accused Germany of using a “grossly undervalued” currency to “exploit” the United States. Yet, just a few days prior, Navarro himself spoke of Germany as a model that the United States might emulate. “We envision a more Germany-style economy, where 20 percent of our workforce is in manufacturing,” he said on CNBC.

Donald Trump (or maybe not him but his adviser) wants to:

1. Keep the United States as the world’s banker (I’d presume)

2. Cut taxes (mostly for the wealthy)

3. Increase investment to include foreign investment.

4. And increase military spending and infrastructure spending.

5. And if he’s listening to that (conservative) idiot David Malpass, keep a strong dollar

While making the United States a "German style economy"( or maybe just his adviser, Navarro).

Except he forgets one thing

EX – IM = S – I

Now its true the above is accounting identity, not a behavioral relationship. And it's not correct exactly do economics by accounting identity. But, the gist of it is that if you are going to have net exports, you need to have net national savings over investment. Given Trump’s actually policy proposals, it would seem we're just not going to get there.

I think the Germans do a lot of interesting stuff. And I think there is a lot of stuff we can learn from them. But, I don’t think its  or I'm not really sure its possible for us to be like them, as net exporters, with the desire of people around the world to hold American dollars and financial assets as safe stores of value. But, if being like Germany is the goal, then Trump’s various policies seem pretty incoherent and inconsistent.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I think Brexit is more dangerous for the EU than Trump. 

That wasn't my point, though. I am not really going into what's the bigger danger for the EU. It probably is/was/will be the Brexit. But IMO the EU should react similar to both. Act with unity. Britain wanted out? Fine. We will negotiate with them as a block. Trump wants to talk about a trade deal? Fine, we will negotiate as a block. As long as the EU reacts calmly and looks out for their interest as a whole, Trump can boast and rage all he wants. The EU is the bigger market, so there's really no need to fall over and accept any deal he wants. Basically lean back and watch what kinda deal the post European Britain will get, and then take a moment and think the EU has more bargaining power than Britain.

[Fragile Bird]

The latest Trumpism.

Black History Month is history.

Now it's African-American History Month.

 

[Chaircat Meow]

13 minutes ago, Notone said:

That wasn't my point, though. I am not really going into what's the bigger danger for the EU. It probably is/was/will be the Brexit. But IMO the EU should react similar to both. Act with unity. Britain wanted out? Fine. We will negotiate with them as a block. Trump wants to talk about a trade deal? Fine, we will negotiate as a block. As long as the EU reacts calmly and looks out for their interest as a whole, Trump can boast and rage all he wants. The EU is the bigger market, so there's really no need to fall over and accept any deal he wants. Basically lean back and watch what kinda deal the post European Britain will get, and then take a moment and think the EU has more bargaining power than Britain.

It is not actually. The US is the larger economy in GDP terms when the measurement is in dollars, and the EU is also smaller in PPP terms when the UKs GDP is taken out.

[Ice Queen]

6 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

and this is exactly why nazis and white supremacists shouldn't be called the alt-right.  They start to become just people with "different views", which is absurd.  

Completely agree. They are white supremacists and should be called such. 

As for beating the crap out of them, I for one will not lose sleep over it. There are some things we shouldn't tolerate and Nazism is one of them. 

[Swordfish]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

There's a book you all should add to your reading lists, that I think explains what Trump and Bannon are doing. It's The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein, published in 2007. While it's largely about economic policy, the tactic has broader uses.

At least read the Wikipedia page about the book. I would link it but I have no bloody idea how to on this stupid Samsung table :p:

Uh...  Reading that wiki page makes me want to read that book about as much as I want a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Even just reading the 'mixed review' section is pretty dissuasive.

 

 

[Swordfish]

1 minute ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Completely agree. They are white supremacists and should be called such. 

As for beating the crap out of them, I for one will not lose sleep over it. There are some things we shouldn't tolerate and Nazism is one of them. 

Who is the 'them' you are talking about, specifically?

 

 

[Tijgy]

5 minutes ago, Notone said:

That wasn't my point, though. I am not really going into what's the bigger danger for the EU. It probably is/was/will be the Brexit. But IMO the EU should react similar to both. Act with unity. Britain wanted out? Fine. We will negotiate with them as a block. Trump wants to talk about a trade deal? Fine, we will negotiate as a block. As long as the EU reacts calmly and looks out for their interest as a whole, Trump can boast and rage all he wants. The EU is the bigger market, so there's really no need to fall over and accept any deal he wants. Basically lean back and watch what kinda deal the post European Britain will get, and then take a moment and think the EU has more bargaining power than Britain.

The problem is that in both instances the EU would never be able to act with unity because they will never be able to agree on what they should do about this (just like a lot of other important things). And it is not even decided if those trade agreements should be ratified by each country. Will every country do this? Or are you going to impose a trade deal only made in the Union without the on some countries which didn't completely agree? 

CETA even almost failed (and we are not sure it will succeed) and that is not as sensitive as trade deal with a ex-member state or a deal with someone as Trump. 

Maybe I am too cynical but I am seeing currently the two parts of my country not agreeing with each other on the Brexit (and maybe even Trump). 

 

[Ice Queen]

2 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

Who is the 'them' you are talking about, specifically?

 

 

Them, the little Nazis at Berkeley who showed up for that Milo person's speech. And everyone who calls themselves the "alt right". There is no such thing--it's simply a euphemism. 

Screw tolerance. Our democracy is in the balance here. 

[Swordfish]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Them, the little Nazis at Berkeley who showed up for that Milo person's speech.

The ones who rioted, you mean?

[Oreo Crumbs]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Screw tolerance. Our democracy is in the balance here. 

Be careful with this point of view.  This is not a road I want to take this country down.  Tolerance matters to democracy.

[Seli]

13 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

It is not actually. The US is the larger economy in GDP terms when the measurement is in dollars, and the EU is also smaller in PPP terms when the UKs GDP is taken out.

CIA factbook doesn't seem to agree, of course still including the UK.

1	China			$21,270,000,000,000	2016 est.
2	European Union		$19,180,000,000,000	2016 est.
3	United States		$18,560,000,000,000	2016 est.
4	India			$8,721,000,000,000	2016 est.
5	Japan			$4,932,000,000,000	2016 est.
6	Germany			$3,979,000,000,000	2016 est.
7	Russia			$3,745,000,000,000	2016 est.
8	Brazil			$3,135,000,000,000	2016 est.
9	Indonesia		$3,028,000,000,000	2016 est.
10	United Kingdom		$2,788,000,000,000	2016 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

 

[Chaircat Meow]

2 minutes ago, Seli said:

CIA factbook doesn't seem to agree, of course still including the UK.

1	China			$21,270,000,000,000	2016 est.
2	European Union		$19,180,000,000,000	2016 est.
3	United States		$18,560,000,000,000	2016 est.
4	India			$8,721,000,000,000	2016 est.
5	Japan			$4,932,000,000,000	2016 est.
6	Germany			$3,979,000,000,000	2016 est.
7	Russia			$3,745,000,000,000	2016 est.
8	Brazil			$3,135,000,000,000	2016 est.
9	Indonesia		$3,028,000,000,000	2016 est.
10	United Kingdom		$2,788,000,000,000	2016 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

 

Those are PPP figures, not dollars.

[Seli]

2 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

Be careful with this point of view.  This is not a road I want to take this country down.  Tolerance matters to democracy.

Yes. Of course as far as I can remember the GOP has hardly shown any for the last few decades. Why should people who disagree with them act differently?

[Week]

Just now, Swordfish said:

The ones who rioted, you mean?

The 150 supposed rioters of which there is no information that I've seen to identify who they were or where they were from. Unless there is a source that I'm missing, anything else is a personal assumption.

Per the University - 

Quote

UC Berkeley condemns in the strongest possible terms the actions of individuals who invaded the campus, infiltrated a crowd of peaceful students and used violent tactics to close down the event. We deeply regret that the violence unleashed by this group undermined the First Amendment rights of the speaker as well as those who came to lawfully assemble and protest his presence.

http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/02/02/campus-condemns-violence-defends-free-speech/

Make no sense to threaten the University. Assuming they were students (unconfirmed), it still makes absolutely no sense to threaten the University.

My hope is that it will push white nationalist trolls like Milo to other venues outside of universities and further from the public eye.

[Swordfish]

1 minute ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

Be careful with this point of view.  This is not a road I want to take this country down.  Tolerance matters to democracy.

I'm also sort of fascinated by the lefts obsession with the alt right in general, given their mostly minuscule numbers, and overall political insignificance, Bannon or no Bannon.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

Be careful with this point of view.  This is not a road I want to take this country down.  Tolerance matters to democracy.

Couldn't agree more. Especially when you're talking about provocative trolls like Milo. This guy has no meat in his message. He's a human mustard burp. Momentarily tangy then lost in the air. Bill Hader does a more nuanced catty gay guy in 5 minute soundbites on SNL. If we ignore the hack, he will go away. 

[Ice Queen]

3 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

The ones who rioted, you mean?

Well, what they did was wrong, but I don't want them to die. They've been causing problems for years. 

But to say it again: Milo's extreme right wing, white supremacist views should not be tolerated. He's deliberately trying to inflame and incite with his hateful rhetoric. And you can't expect college kids to have the maturity of older adults. You'd better believe that Milo is well aware of that. 

What do you think about Dear Leader threatening to cut off federal funds for universities whose students riot? He's accusing Berkeley of not allowing free speech.