zelticgar Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Where are all these conservatives against Trump? Where are the rallies and protests the base is holding demanding their candidate clean up his act? Where are the Republican Senators and Legislators condemning Trump's behavior and checking his grossly unconstitutional acts? The answer is that these people mostly don't exist because conservatives don't care about anything at all. You stand for nothing, not even for your own children. You will continue to vote for the worst scum among us because that's all you care about. Most conservatives I know don't purposely look to vote for terrible people. Most of the time they are faced with two unappetizing choices and generally the one who is most likely to leave them the hell alone gets the vote. That's not evil or horrible. It just a fact of life. It is not unreasonable to have made the decision that voting HRC into office is not something to support because you dont think government is being run well. I think a lot of people decided when it came down to it that trying something that represents drastic change is more appealing than the status quo. You may not agree with it but I don't think it makes people evil. You certainly are not going to sway people to your side by telling them they don't care about their children and all they do is vote for horrible people. Keep that attitude and the polarization will become far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Swordfish said: I'm not sure where you got that from. The part of your post that I quoted. But no worries, I haven't taken 'umbrage'. Responding to a post doesn't require that I be het up. 6 minutes ago, zelticgar said: Most of the time they are faced with two unappetizing choices and generally the one who is most likely to leave them the hell alone gets the vote. That's not evil or horrible. It's kinda horrible when the candidate they pick explicitly says he isn't going to leave whole classes of other people alone, and in fact he's going to make their lives awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, mormont said: The part of your post that I quoted. But no worries, I haven't taken 'umbrage'. Responding to a post doesn't require that I be het up. In fairness to me, i really love the word umbrage, and will use it unapologetically, even if it isn't 100% correct, because I'm a fool for the word...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I wonder why Twitler isn't tweeting about this? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ga-man-apparent-white-supremacy-ties-arrested-ricin-article-1.2968318 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, zelticgar said: Most conservatives I know don't purposely look to vote for terrible people. Most of the time they are faced with two unappetizing choices and generally the one who is most likely to leave them the hell alone gets the vote. That's not evil or horrible. It just a fact of life. It is not unreasonable to have made the decision that voting HRC into office is not something to support because you dont think government is being run well. I think a lot of people decided when it came down to it that trying something that represents drastic change is more appealing than the status quo. You may not agree with it but I don't think it makes people evil. You certainly are not going to sway people to your side by telling them they don't care about their children and they all they do is vote for horrible people. Keep that attitude and the polarization will become far worse. I get what you are saying here, I really do. And if I might speak for the good Dr. for a moment I'll say that as liberals we're pretty goddamn tired of going 90 percent of the way to reconciliation and being vilified for our trouble. For me, I know that my aunt and uncle aren't bad people. They're moderately wealthy and have an interest in supporting the side of the spectrum that wants them to pay as little taxes as possible (among other things). I get that, it's a clear case of self interest and there's really nothing wrong with that. The problem is that when their representatives drift to more and more extreme rhetoric like claiming global warming is a hoax and they don't primary them out. The greatest strength of the Republicans is their ability to get in lockstep with each other despite their vicious infighting. I live with someone who despises everything about religion. An anti-zealot if ever there was one, but he supports the 'party of business' and merely wrings his hands when at the RNC Donald states his desire to base law off the bible. Any attempt made by me to show any other way of thinking besides the empty rhetoric of the Right ends with me being insulted and blatantly lied to in a personal conversation. Republican voters refuse to take accountability for their party and it is sickening to watch. Small wonder that liberals are disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, WinterFox said: I get what you are saying here, I really do. And if I might speak for the good Dr. for a moment I'll say that as liberals we're pretty goddamn tired of going 90 percent of the way to reconciliation and being vilified for our trouble. For me, I know that my aunt and uncle aren't bad people. They're moderately wealthy and have an interest in supporting the side of the spectrum that wants them to pay as little taxes as possible (among other things). I get that, it's a clear case of self interest and there's really nothing wrong with that. The problem is that when their representatives drift to more and more extreme rhetoric like claiming global warming is a hoax and they don't primary them out. The greatest strength of the Republicans is their ability to get in lockstep with each other despite their vicious infighting. I live with someone who despises everything about religion. An anti-zealot if ever there was one, but he supports the 'party of business' and merely wrings his hands when at the RNC Donald states his desire to base law off the bible. Any attempt made by me to show any other way of thinking besides the empty rhetoric of the Right ends with me being insulted and blatantly lied to in a personal conversation. How's the view from up on that cross? Quote Republican voters refuse to take accountability for their party and it is sickening to watch. Small wonder that liberals independents are disgusted. Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Swordfish said: How's the view from up on that cross? All things considered? The mob is a bit more European than I'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I'd also wager that the amount of Democrats or Republicans that have actually studied climate change well enough to form an opinion is extremely low and that most are just nodding heads in agreement with their party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, WinterFox said: All things considered? The mob is a bit more European than I'd like. Well... Cheer up, WF. You know what they say: some things in life are bad. They can really make you mad. Other things just make you swear and curse. When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble; give a whistle, and this'll help things turn out for the best. And... always look on the bright side of life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said: Doesn't "easy D", like, mean an alternative way to say "easy word-for-a-penis"? Trump still doesn't let other people read his tweets before he sends them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, zelticgar said: Most conservatives I know don't purposely look to vote for terrible people. Most of the time they are faced with two unappetizing choices and generally the one who is most likely to leave them the hell alone gets the vote. That's not evil or horrible. It just a fact of life. It is not unreasonable to have made the decision that voting HRC into office is not something to support because you dont think government is being run well. I think a lot of people decided when it came down to it that trying something that represents drastic change is more appealing than the status quo. You may not agree with it but I don't think it makes people evil. You certainly are not going to sway people to your side by telling them they don't care about their children and all they do is vote for horrible people. Keep that attitude and the polarization will become far worse. So what are these people who voted against the status quo doing to guide the principles they voted for? I mean, I get that they voted for a particular issue that was part of the "Trump package." But the "Trump Package" is super heavy on bigotry and compromised rights for groups of people, as well as prodigious excesses of the highly corrupt Trump family, among other minor issues like gross incompetence, unpreparedness and unsatisfactory temperament. So if these unsavory aspects of the "Trump package" are not what they voted for, and they believe themselves to be good people who just wanted change, what are they doing to try to curtail the excesses they apparently want no part of? Where are their voices? I get that we shouldn't lob calls of "racist" indiscriminately at Trump voters (or write them off as "bad people"), but here's the thing: voting for Trump was a really bad thing! The "Trump Package" contains a lot of negative externalities, and even if one voted for one of the innocuous reasons, they had to have a certain degree of comfort with the ridiculously problematic excesses that are part of the overall package. I kind of think these "good Trump voters" have a bit of a debt here, some externalities they should work to mitigate if they resent being seen as bad people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Is that a real thing? either way, it's just... Disturbing doesn't quite do it justice i don't think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Is that a real thing? either way, it's just... Disturbing doesn't quite do it justice i don't think.... I take it you're not down with the "Trump Package?" /The photo is real, the 900 number? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You all may or may not be familiar with the successful sf writer, Charlie Stross. He lives in Scotland, is Jewish and thinks of these matters in the US and the UK hard and constantly. Here are some scenarios he's been coming up with that develop directly in a straight line to what the christofascists and repugs promulgate: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2017/02/some-notes-on-the-worst-case-s.html#more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 8 hours ago, denstorebog said: As heartening as it is to know that we're protected by invisible layers of government, I also can't help but feel that these are just more pieces placed on a game board that Trump is going to try and sidestep completely. If a president (who has a history of sowing distrust against entire ethnicities, professions etc.) already starts to undermine the public's trust in the judiciary branch after two weeks, then I don't see how more lawyers and government officials are helping in the long run, unless these are lawyers with machine guns. It's worse than that. The article depicts these invisible layers of government as protection from tyranny, but to many people they are the tyrants. Groups aligned with Trump refer to them as "the deep state" -- unelected bureaucrats, lobbyists, lawyers, etc. that serve as the establishment's means of holding on to power regardless of how the people vote. When people say "Drain the swamp!", these are the people they're referring to. There's no doubt that they will try to fight Trump at every turn, but it is not obvious that they will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I take it you're not down with the "Trump Package?" Heh... Not so much.... Quote /The photo is real, the 900 number? Not so much. i suppose it's an statement about the situation we are in that I even had to ask......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Swordfish said: i suppose it's an statement about the situation we are in that I even had to ask......... That's always been a legit question (at least in the internet age) when it comes to photos. Photoshop is pretty damn amazing in the hands of an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: That's always been a legit question (at least in the internet age) when it comes to photos. Photoshop is pretty damn amazing in the hands of an expert. True. but I was really referring more to the fact that i couldn't rul out that it was real based on context alone. Which you certainly could for virtually every other president ever.... Like, if i saw that for Obama, I'd automatically be like, 'oh, photoshop'. but with Trump... initial reaction: 'Could be true'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impmk2 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 43 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: I'd also wager that the amount of Democrats or Republicans that have actually studied climate change well enough to form an opinion is extremely low and that most are just nodding heads in agreement with their party The difference is Dems aren't just agreeing with their party. They're also agreeing with over 90% of people who have studied this is enough depth (the scientists) to form an opinion. And frankly looking at the fucking crazy weather patterns that are happening world wide as it was predicted they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, Impmk2 said: The difference is Dems aren't just agreeing with their party. They're also agreeing with over 90% of people who have studied this is enough depth (the scientists) to form an opinion. And frankly looking at the fucking crazy weather patterns that are happening world wide as it was predicted they would. But you have to remember the following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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