James Arryn Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: If you're a fan of the NBA and cannot see the significance of what Westbrook has done this year, well I think you need to rethink it. He broke not one, but 2 records that no one thought could be broken, all the while leading a sub par roster to a playoff berth. He has willed them to victories on so many occasions this year, it's ridiculous. We will not see this again in our lifetime. He is without a doubt the Most Valuable Player in this league to his team, hands down. I don't even see how it's a argument. And, many players in the league feel the exact same way. As @Relic said, if he doesnt get it, its highway robbery. I think Isiah Thomas leads the league in Willed To Win %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, James Arryn said: I think Isiah Thomas leads the league in Willed To Win %. He certainly leads the league in Unwarranted Superstar Calls from the Refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, briantw said: He certainly leads the league in Unwarranted Superstar Calls from the Refs. Yeah, and he's 3rd in Adjusted Shrug Rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: If you're a fan of the NBA and cannot see the significance of what Westbrook has done this year, well I think you need to rethink it. He broke not one, but 2 records that no one thought could be broken, all the while leading a sub par roster to a playoff berth. He has willed them to victories on so many occasions this year, it's ridiculous. We will not see this again in our lifetime. He is without a doubt the Most Valuable Player in this league to his team, hands down. I don't even see how it's a argument. And, many players in the league feel the exact same way. As @Relic said, if he doesnt get it, its highway robbery. To a team that is not likely to get out of the first round of the playoffs. So how valuable is he? Valuable enough to keep his team out of the lottery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I also think this is a moot point. Russell is going to win. He peaked over the final two weeks of the season, while Harden and Kawhi both tailed off a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, sperry said: I also think this is a moot point. Russell is going to win. He peaked over the final two weeks of the season, while Harden and Kawhi both tailed off a little bit. I think you're likely right, and I'm fine with that. I think he's certainly worthy. My push back is on the idea that he'll have been ripped off somehow if he doesn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: My push back is on the idea that he'll have been ripped off somehow if he doesn't get it. What's a discussion about sports without some hyperbole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Relic said: What's a discussion about sports without some hyperbole? The end of days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Couple of things: Why not Leonard? Because I think he comes in just behind Harden and Westbrook, by most people's estimations, as well as my own. I would put him 3rd or 4th with LeBron. Why not LeBron? Hasn't quite done enough even though fully in his prime. I think the Cavs are just too bad for him to win, considering the stars they have. They have disappointed. So it's between Harden and Westbrook and I could be fine with either winning it. The fact that Houston has a better team works both for and against Harden in this. I will say that I think Westbrook has elevated a fairly mediocre side to a level that is higher than everyone expected. The flipside is, what is OKC's competition for that no. 6 spot? A tired old Memphis team? the Kings or Pelicans? Dallas? I think OKC all in all is pretty much at the same level as Portland and Denver. Point being, how remarkable is it really that they finished 6th? I'm not sure. I am sure though that Westbrook has been exceptional. On another note, The Rockets are not a title contender, and are not coming out of the West either. Conference finals at the very most if they can upset the Spurs. Which I don't think will happen btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Relic said: What's a discussion about sports without some hyperbole? A world without Skip Bayless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: A world without Skip Bayless? And about 800,000,000 other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Relic said: What's a discussion about sports without some hyperbole? True, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 Ultimately my pick of Westbrook over Harden for MVP is completely subjective. The individual numbers are a wash while Harden has a better team and a better record, so it should go to Harden. But.... Fuck Harden... and Westbrook has been a visceral beast this season, which makes him more appealing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I still like Leonard, his offensive numbers are very good. Whatever his offensive stats lack in comparison to Harden and Westbrook he makes up for defensively. And Westbrooks stat stuffing season just doesn't impress me as much as it probably should. Normally when a guy plays like this on a subpar team we say "man, if they could just get this guy a little help he'd go all the way!" but in this situation he had it before in Durant. I can't help but suspect there's some sort of concerted effort within that team and organization to make sure Westbrook shined heavily to in some way "stick it" to Durant for leaving. Also on just a personal pride level for Westbrook. If he keeps having these types of seasons and his team has more success I'll be more convinced of his mvp-ness. Even Oscar Robertson didn't get MVP for averaging multiple seasons of triple doubles until the one season the Royals managed to put a top tier team around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 29 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: Even Oscar Robertson didn't get MVP for averaging multiple seasons of triple doubles until the one season the Royals managed to put a top tier team around him. he only had 1 triple double for a full season, though he did average a triple double over his first 5 years (is that what you were trying to say?). i don't understand this whole his team have to win a lot, to make someone MVP in basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: he only had 1 triple double for a full season, though he did average a triple double over his first 5 years (is that what you were trying to say?). i don't understand this whole his team have to win a lot, to make someone MVP in basketball. Yes he averaged multiple seasons of triple doubles. Imo, no matter how good you are individually if your team is nowhere near sniffing the top then you are not nearly as valuable as a guy that may or may not be worse than you who is leading a better supporting cast near the top. There's just not much value in low level playoff appearances no matter how much of an individual statistical performance the star puts on. I think there's a MUCH bigger gap between great and average than there is between average and crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Relic said: Ultimately my pick of Westbrook over Harden for MVP is completely subjective. The individual numbers are a wash while Harden has a better team and a better record, so it should go to Harden. But.... Fuck Harden... and Westbrook has been a visceral beast this season, which makes him more appealing to me. I could forgive everything else if he just stopped throwing his head back every time someone gets close to him. His game is so unappealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Westbrook willed horrible Thunder team to another win tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 From the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 15 hours ago, DunderMifflin said: Yes he averaged multiple seasons of triple doubles. Imo, no matter how good you are individually if your team is nowhere near sniffing the top then you are not nearly as valuable as a guy that may or may not be worse than you who is leading a better supporting cast near the top. There's just not much value in low level playoff appearances no matter how much of an individual statistical performance the star puts on. Maybe we just disagree on what valuable means, to me there are 2 ways of reading it, who is of most value to their team i.e. if they weren't on the team how much worse would the team be. Or who is most valuable, e.g. if they were up for a transfer as in european sports, based on there most recent performances who would have the highest value. i just don't see how the success or failure of a team is relevant, i suppose its because you don't have promotion and relegation in north american sports, if you did you would be able to see the value of the person that stops their team getting relegated as being just as valuable as being the person who gets their team in contention for championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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