Xray the Enforcer Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 [mod] Take the discussion of Roman Britain elsewhere, please. Preferably off the board. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 [mod] If your posts keep disappearing, there is a reason for that. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Jeff flake may be at 18% but national democrat leadership would be happy for him to run unopposed since they so loath winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 One thing that I've noticed about political discussions over the past few years forums and in public , Is that the middle ground has disappeared completely. People don't talk about political issues and difference in adult and constructive manner anymore . Instead they fight over them. It's depressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just now, GAROVORKIN said: One thing that I've noticed about political discussions over the past few years forums and in public , Is that the middle ground has disappeared completely. People don't talk about political issues and difference in adult and constructive manner anymore . Instead they fight over them. It's depressing What's the middle ground when nazis and white supremacists are in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: What's the middle ground when nazis and white supremacists are in charge? What is left's definition of middle ground ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: What's the middle ground when nazis and white supremacists are in charge? Lol exactly. There is no middle ground with that, or civil rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said: Lol exactly. There is no middle ground with that, or civil rights. What about the first Amendment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: What about the first Amendment? What about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said: What about it? Do you think they have the right demonstrate and express their despicable and racist opinions in public ? Should they not be allowed to express them at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: What is left's definition of middle ground ? How about we start with being not a fucking nazi? Can you do that one? Maybe you can make a thread titled, "What Would 2017 Be Like If the White House Wasn't Occupied By Nazis" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Quote Do you think they have the right demonstrate and express their vile and racist opinions in public ? Should they not be allowed to express them? What was that asshole Nazi expressing by running a young American girl over with his car? Was he telling us that he sides with ISIS? That's the message I got. It's not a far leap to see that Trump sides with ISIS at this point. All sides are the same after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: How about we start with being not a fucking nazi? Can you do that one? In this country, you can think be and say anything you want as long it doesn't break the law or impinge on anyone else'srights to do the same. Would you agree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: In this country, you can think be and say anything you want as long it doesn't break the law or impinge on anyone else'srights to do the same. Would you agree with that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action." Personally, I'm of the opinion that vehicular homicide and intimidation of minority groups (anti-Semitic chants and standing armed outside of synagogues) would constitute lawless action - one could even call it terrorism if you were honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: What was that asshole Nazi expressing by running a young American girl over with his car? Was he telling us that he sides with ISIS? That's the message I got. It's not a far leap to see that Trump sides with ISIS at this point. All sides are the same after all. You have the right to express your opinions, and demonstrate but, you do not have the right do any harm to anyone in anyway whatsoever. nor does it give you the right in engage rioting or the destruction of property. Nor does it give you the right to prevent people from expressing their rights under the Law. That SOB that ran over that girl should be thrown in to jail and they should weld the door shut on his cell . He should never be let out of jail ever . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: In this country, you can think be and say anything you want as long it doesn't break the law or impinge on anyone else'srights to do the same. Would you agree with that? You were asking about a middle ground. You asked what the middle ground would be for for those on the left. Now you're trying to make some dumb argument about how people can be or do whatever they want. You're no longer having a discussion about the middle ground but trying to argue that people can be nazis if they want to. My real middle ground is a bit more than not being a nazi. I believe that black lives matter, that love is love, that women's rights are human rights, that all people should have a quality education and health care. All of these are my middle ground and it's a nonstarter if someone doesn't meet me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: One thing that I've noticed about political discussions over the past few years forums and in public , Is that the middle ground has disappeared completely. People don't talk about political issues and difference in adult and constructive manner anymore . Instead they fight over them. It's depressing I don't think it is quite so bad as that. I agree with you that online forums (including this one) as well as the mainstream media have become much more polarized than they once were. Furthermore, it's certainly true that there exist uncivil people who treat every minor political occurrence as a matter of life and death and consider their counterparts from the other side of the political spectrum to be The Enemy (rather than fellow citizens who happen to disagree on certain issues). However, despite having some acquaintances who are strongly pro-Trump and some who are strongly anti-Trump, I have never yet had to raise my voice in real-life discussions of politics so I think that the above-mentioned uncivil people are still a fairly small minority. Unfortunately, they're not quite so rare that one can avoid them online and the media's usual tendency towards sensationalism encourages them, but most people aren't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 39 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: What about the first Amendment? If you're asking Sword of Doom and Dr. Pepper, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to Neo-Nazis. It's a selectively applied amendment. On top of that, they are interested in 2nd Amendment solutions regarding these types of groups. Welcome to the Regressive Left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: If you're asking Sword of Doom and Dr. Pepper, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to Neo-Nazis. It's a selectively applied amendment. On top of that, they are interested in 2nd Amendment solutions regarding these types of groups. Welcome to the Regressive Left. No, you'll find that both of us are actually anti 2A. What we are for is to not allow nazis platforms for recruitment. Nazism isn't a valid ideology. It's incitement to murder entire groups of people. What we are also fighting against nazis, white supremacists and other far right fuckers who want to, you know, kill us. I get that you love nazis, but most decent people do not. If not loving nazis makes us somehow 'regressive' then ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: No, you'll find that both of us are actually anti 2A. What we are for is to not allow nazis platforms for recruitment. Nazism isn't a valid ideology. It's incitement to murder entire groups of people. What we are also fighting against nazis, white supremacists and other far right fuckers who want to, you know, kill us. I get that you love nazis, but most decent people do not. If not loving nazis makes us somehow 'regressive' then ok. Okay, I shouldn't have spoken for you, apologies, but Sword of Doom is all for straight up murdering neo-nazis, he or she has posted as much. I have to imagine most of that would occur "looking down the barrel of a gun" so to speak. What makes you regressive is your willingness to label anyone who disagrees with you as a nazi, a racist, a homophobe , or whatever the most negative label you can apply to that argument in order to shutdown that particular argument. That is a regressive, illiberal tactic. It is simple name calling which only damages conversation or debate. I hate nazis, but I'm not going to become one in order to defeat them. Adopting the tactics and beliefs of a group you hate in order to destroy them perverts you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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