EURO 2008

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='Bastard of Godsgrace' post='1396236' date='Jun 12 2008, 22.22']What a fucking farce. Now I know how Italians and Spanish felt in 2002. In the last 10 minutes the ref was actively seeking the way to let Austrians score. Well, our team didn't deserve to qualify anyhow, so I guess there is no reason to regret it too much. Now I wonder how the Austria-Germany game will go. Austrians have to win, but, well, bigger miracles did happen when home teams were concerned.[/quote]
It was still a penalty.

[Padraig]

[quote]What does King Otto have to do with Austria?[/quote]
Otto apparently said something about how Poland looked good attacking Germany but they lost. And that his Greek team wouldn't suffer from that "problem" (i.e. playing offensively and losing). :stunned:

Its one thing to play like he does but I didn't like him taking such a potshot at another team.

There should be a lot more complimentary posts about Croatia btw. That was a seriously impressive performance. :thumbsup: Although, Germany were bad. I'm really puzzled at what happened to them in a few days. Did Poland just make them look good because of their bad defence? Croatia outplayed them today anyhow. I expected they'd improve but this was amazing. Modric was great. You'd really wonder how he could play against these huge Germans but he skipped around them like they were all wearing lead boots. Srna was just class. Krancjar was dangerous. Olic ran his socks out. The defence was very solid.

I think the real indicator of their ability was when Germany scored. I thought the last 10 minutes was going to see a German bombardment on the Croatian goal but the Croatians grabbed the ball and made it very difficult for Germany to get it back. In fact, Croatia almost scored a 3rd. Germany didn't even get close. In many ways it was the most complete performance of the tournament since you didn't leave wondering was their defence a disaster waiting to happen. They are now serious contenders.

I think the only German who played ok was Lahm (and only when he was put back in his normal position). Everyone else should hold their head in shame. Podolski has a midfielder is a pure waste. Maybe he is creative but he doesn't show it at all (even in the first game).

[Mathis]

[quote name='Podezine Podane' post='1396442' date='Jun 13 2008, 01.21']That was a seriously impressive performance. :thumbsup: Although, Germany were bad. I'm really puzzled at what happened to them in a few days. Did Poland just make them look good because of their bad defence? Croatia outplayed them today anyhow.[/quote]

Its easy for me to say now but Jaochim Low got done by Slaven Bilic. A Germany midfield of Ballack, Frings, Podolski (a striker) and Fritz (not much good) was always going to struggle against 5 zippy Croats who are comfortable in possesion. Kranjcar, Rakitic and Srna were always moving making it easy for Modric to find a pass and get the ball away from Frings.

Is this the last we've seen of Jansen? He got exposed time and time again. Also doesn't bode well for Freidrich.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1396248' date='Jun 12 2008, 23.32']That penalty was no where near as dodgy as some of the decisions that Italy had against them in 2002.[/quote]


But you could still call 10 such penalties in any given game. True Poland didn't deserve to win (I don't remember when I last saw our team play so poorly in an important game. Must have been in nineties), but it still sucks. I can only hope we will get the same preferential treatment in 2012. ;)

[Jon AS]

What an awful game. Worst performance by German team in a competitive game since...Euro 2004, I think. EVERYONE was horrible, just like the French on monday they were just standing around, allowing the Croatians to close them down. Ballack had quite possibly the worst game of his life and him trying to push the team by playing like a poor man's Sammer or Effenberg in the second half didn't have any discernible effect.

Schweinsteiger's card (wholly deserved btw) just added to the fun. If Joe Simunic is not the first player to be sent off in a game he starts, something is definitely wrong.

As to the Austrians: how can their finishing be so god-awful?

And everyone complaining about van Nistelrooy's goal should take a look at Guerreiro's to see what a real offside position looks like. Horrible mistake by the linesman there, he was standing on the goal line, not level with the last defender.

[quote name='Podezine Podane']Otto apparently said something about how Poland looked good attacking Germany but they lost. And that his Greek team wouldn't suffer from that "problem" (i.e. playing offensively and losing). :stunned:

Its one thing to play like he does but I didn't like him taking such a potshot at another team.[/quote]

I'd have to hear it, but I doubt that was a potshot but think he was in fact making a joke, specifically about his own defensive tactics. It's the kind of thing he does.

[quote name='Podezine Podane']I think the only German who played ok was Lahm (and only when he was put back in his normal position). Everyone else should hold their head in shame. Podolski has a midfielder is a pure waste. Maybe he is creative but he doesn't show it at all (even in the first game).[/quote]

I disagree on both counts. First of all, the right is Lahm's normal position and second Podolski in midfield works because he likes to have some space to run into. In this game, there was neither space nor running so he was indeed a waste, as was the rest of the team.

[quote name='Bastard of Godsgrace']But you could still call 10 such penalties in any given game.[/quote]

No, that was very clear and a bit more than the usual shoving that goes on before set pieces. Don't blame the referee for the Polish defender being stupid enough to pull down an Austrian player right before the eyes of the ref and immediately after he had been warned by said ref to behave himself.

[Calibandar]

[quote]PPPS -Luka Modric, is he trying to work the Cruyff comparions on purpose? the face ok there is a ressemblance but the hair, the 14. I never saw Cruyff on a real game, but from excerpts, that is a comparison Modric is silly to invite.[/quote]

They're mentioning the Cruyff comparison here a lot as well. I had not even seen he was also wearing no. 14. So ok, he looks a lot like the young Cruyff. Like Cruyff he is also a playmaker, and a good one. Modric played very well yesterday. But Cruyff was a much more dominant player on the field even at that age and even more gifted. Hopefully Modric will continue to get better.

As for the Germany vs Croats match, I just thought it was also a case of the Germans just not having the form on the day. Germany is certainly capable of doing better. This takes nothing away from Croatia's performance, which was very good and they frustrated Germany, and deserved 3 points. I think the most spicy fact to come of this is that we'll get a Portugal vs Germany quarter final, which should be a cracker.

[The Man Who]

I may be slightly biased but I'm amazed at some of the complaints.

My biggest complaint is with the commentator we got and the studio people.

I can't believe that not only did the commentator miss the fact that it was offside (as well as the linesman) but noone in the studio even noticed anything slightly wrong despite the fact that they get paid to analyse the match.

And as to the shirt pull - normally it does seem part and parcel but it is a penalisable offence that the refs have trouble seeing. However, if you make it blatantly obvious by showing everyone your opponent's midriff you will be penalised. Those stretchy type of shirts are very good at making pulls noticable.

Also I think Ivanschitz should have got the penalty but don't blame the ref because from his view he couldn't see the defender clamping on and Ivanschitz went down a bit softly.

[The Stranger]

So far in this tournament, I have been most deeply impressed by the Turkish strategy of just bleeding all over the opposition.

tonight there will be some soul searching: wake up bright and early tomorrow to take trip to rugged plateau filled with hot springs and crystal clear lakes, or stay up until 4 am watching Dirk Kuyt dismember the Mailed Fist of Ex-Colonial African Subjects...

[Paddy]

[quote name='Bastard of Godsgrace' post='1396767' date='Jun 13 2008, 07.11']But you could still call 10 such penalties in any given game.[/quote]
And honestly, I think Referees should call them all the time.
People saying "but that will just lead to a farce with 10 penalties a game" are being ridiculous. Quite simply, if they do, it will stop happening, as it should.

Conversely, I think that Referees are too harsh on jostling in the area from attackers, giving free outs as soon as the ball comes in from a corner or free kick. They should let these go more than they do, especially at the higher levels of internationals and the Champions League and force defenders to work harder and be tougher, instead of just falling over under the slightest of contact.
Strangely, this doesn't appear to be much of an issue in national league and cup games that I've seen, but then I've always found Referees to be a lot more pedantic at International and Champions League level.

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1396882' date='Jun 13 2008, 10.31']And honestly, I think Referees should call them all the time.
People saying "but that will just lead to a farce with 10 penalties a game" are being ridiculous. Quite simply, if they do, it will stop happening, as it should.[/quote]

Totally agree.

[Padraig]

[quote name='Jean AS' post='1396778' date='Jun 13 2008, 07.24']I'd have to hear it, but I doubt that was a potshot but think he was in fact making a joke, specifically about his own defensive tactics. It's the kind of thing he does.[/quote]
Fair point. It could easily have been a joke when I think about it (I only had it reported to me. I didn't hear him say it). I really got to realise that Germans can be funny. :P

I also agree that its very difficult for Poland to complain when their goal was offside. And they got away with an earlier penalty claim against them. Plus they played badly. Its not the first time Poland have underperformed at a major tournament. Germany seems to be the only team they can play well against.

[quote]First of all, the right is Lahm's normal position and second Podolski in midfield works because he likes to have some space to run into. In this game, there was neither space nor running so he was indeed a waste, as was the rest of the team.[/quote]
Ok. It just happened that Lahm did some good when he moved to the left. But yes, that also was the same time Germany had to force the game and Lahm is a decent attacking full back. Podolski. I haven't seen much from him as an attacking midfielder yet. He can certainly score but if he was playing as a midfielder with Bayern then i'm not surprised that he wasn't a regular.

I agree with Cal that Germany are bound to improve from this display. Sometimes a team finds it impossible to find that extra gear. Portugal should be confident that they can beat them since they can play the same quick passing game that Croatia employed. Germany might feel that Portugal's defense isn't as solid as Croatia's though. So could be a very close game.

I'm assuming Germany will qualify, naturally. :)

Edited to add that I agree with Paddy also.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo']Strangely, this doesn't appear to be much of an issue in national league and cup games that I've seen, but then I've always found Referees to be a lot more pedantic at International and Champions League level.[/quote]

They know they are under much more scrutiny there. Who is going to remember a bad call in a titanic clash between Cottbus and Bochum (or Wigan and Sunderland or whatever)? But the name of the referee who makes a bad decision that decides a major CL or World Cup game goes down in history, and not in a good way. Unless you're from Azerbaijan, of course. ;)

[quote name='Podezine Podane']Germany seems to be the only team they can play well against.[/quote]

Funnily enough they've never won a game against Germany.

[quote name='Podezine Podane']He can certainly score but if he was playing as a midfielder with Bayern then i'm not surprised that he wasn't a regular.[/quote]

Nah, when he plays for Bayern he plays as a striker, thus his limited playing time at club level.

[Black Wizard]

[quote name='SergioCQH' post='1396330' date='Jun 12 2008, 23.25']Nor as dodgy as the penalty kick the Italians received against the Aussies in '06.[/quote]
Or as dodgy as the freekick Italy got in the last minute of their qualifying game away to Scotland. :tantrum:




"DEUTSCHLAND, DEUTSCHLAND, AUF WIEDERSEHEN!"

[mormont]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1396921' date='Jun 13 2008, 11.53']Or as dodgy as the freekick Italy got in the last minute of their qualifying game away to Scotland. :tantrum:[/quote]

Nothing in the history of football is as dodgy as that decision.

[Paddy]

[quote name='Morba the Greek' post='1396924' date='Jun 13 2008, 11.56']Nothing in the history of football is as dodgy as that decision.[/quote]
Except for the POW's perfectly good goal that was disallowed in "Escape to Victory".

:P

It depends on your definition of dodgy of course, but this one springs to mind:[quote]In 1943, at Les Corts, for the first leg of the semi-finals of the Copa del Generalísimo against Real Madrid, the result was a 3-0 win for Barça. Before the second leg, Barcelona's players had a changing room visit from Franco's director of state security. He 'reminded' them that they were only playing due to the 'generosity of the regime'. Madrid side won that game 11-1.[/quote]

[Calibandar]

Ok, I'll try my hand again at some predictions.

Italy vs Roumania 3-0

Italy bounced back, makes some changes in the team and will be better than Roumania. Of course a draw here would be absolutely ideal, but Italy will probably take revenge here.

France vs Holland 1-1/1-0

I'm not sure what happens but I think France has a very good team. There's not a line that I consider weak, certainly not defensively, and they do have potentially very dangerous strikers. Holland is aware that France will give it everything they've got and that anything less than a victory would be a poor result for them. It's going to be tough, as I think the first match against Roumania was quite different and they were not into it yet.

[Zoë Sumra]

France are [i]potentially [/i]dangerous, sure, but in their opening match they looked to me to be acting like a group of strangers - in much the same way that England normally do in internationals. Contrast is with teams such as Holland who were playing like they'd actually met before. I would put Holland to beat France on that basis, although I agree that France are man-for-man a better side.

[Padraig]

[quote name='Eloisa' post='1396991' date='Jun 13 2008, 13.36']France are [i]potentially [/i]dangerous, sure, but in their opening match they looked to me to be acting like a group of strangers.[/quote]
But France have done this before. They have failed consistently to perform against defensive teams. OTOH their record against attacking teams is very good. And even when they play badly like they did against Romania, teams have found it very difficult to score against them. I would think that the Dutch are going to have a really tough game today. If they win then they definitely deserve to be favourites. They did look very impressive against the Italians (except for their defence) and they have the attacking pace and style to cause the elderly French defence problems.

I think a 1-1 draw is likely. Starting players like Evra and Henry (over Anelka) will be a very positive sign. I'm not sure about Viera though.

And Italy will probably respond positively also. I think Donadoni bottled it in many ways the first time. The team probably didn't look very impressive in training or in friendlies and he thought the less risky venture was to put the Milan midfield in the first team, even though Milan had a poor season, while players like De Rossi were playing really well. If he makes enough changes today they should win.

So 2-0 for me to Italy. Romania showed nothing offensively against France, so they could have hidden potential also but Italy is the safer choice.

[quote]Funnily enough they've never won a game against Germany.[/quote]
True. Their best performances in the last 2 finals were against Germany though, so I was been a little ironic. :)

[Jon AS]

My predictions were all made before the first game and so I've been completely off since monday, but still: Italy to beat Romania 2-0 and France to brotherly share the points with the Dutch in a 1-1 draw.

[Calibandar]

Eloisa

[quote]I would put Holland to beat France on that basis, although I agree that France are man-for-man a better side.[/quote]

I personally don't think France are man-for-man a better side. I think the level of individual talent with both teams is very high. However there is that sense of the French really needing to go to the utmost today which I imagine might give them some momentum over the Dutch, who, while not playing for a draw, will know in the back of their heads that a draw would be a good result.

Most of the decisive players in the French squad are relatively old, whereas the driving force of the Dutch team is in their early to mid 20's and I hope that that can be exploited on this tournament already.