Onion Knight

The ASOIAF wiki thread

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3 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

This isn't the god-damned TV series.  Not yet.  It is *forbidden* to record the names of High Septons.

Once there the High Septon but like the Robeson page there is no harm in mentioning his name since we start the recordings of his deeds before he becomes High Septon :D

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14 hours ago, Gonzalo said:

Actually, there are a couple of thralls in the Iron Fleet who are "from the Iron Islands", but not Ironborn, mentioned in the Victarion TWOW preview.

This categorization follows the example already set by having categories for Valyrians, and a new one I created for the Rhoynar, to differentiate Yandry and Ysilla from Nymeria and Prince Garin. They all fit "Characters from the Rhoyne", but Nymeria and Pricne Garin are Rhoynar while Yandry and Ysilla are Orphans

What exactly is meant by "ironborn"? It seems an alternative to "ironmen", the people of the Iron Islands, and the Greyjoys use them interchangeably in ASOIAF. Captured individuals can fit into the Thralls or Slaves and freedmen categories, and if they row for the Iron Fleet they can fit into the Sailors category. It seems redundant to have both "Characters from the Iron Islands" and "Ironborn" when there are only a few articles which might differ. Also, is this the excerpt you mean? 

 

18 hours ago, direpupy said:

Arek has already made the page and has gone for High Septon (Pater) i honestly do not see anything wrong with it, even if he is the first we know the name off after we ourselfs are not Andal are we :P

I agree, with WP:TITLE in mind, "High Septon (Pater)" seems ideal to me. GRRM identifies him as Pater, and its inclusion easily differentiates his article from the other High Septons. A Wiki of Ice and Fire isn't in-universe, so we don't use the convoluted naming (One has to say, 'the fat one,' or 'the one before the fat one,' or 'the old one who died in his sleep.') if we don't have to.

 

18 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Second, Poxy Jeyne Poore....there is no "House Poore".  Should we take this as evidence that one exists and make an article for "House Poore"?  Or, was this just a sobriquet that Poxy Jeyne picked up?  "Jeyne Poore" = "Poore Jeyne of the Poor Fellows?"

Third, listed among the dead after the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye is "Ser Willam Whistler".  There is no "House Whistler" - should we take this as evidence that one exists and make an article for it?

I would hold off for now until we receive clarification from GRRM or Ran. Janos Slynt, for instance, has a surname before being ennobled, but House Slynt is founded after Joffrey becomes king. Creighton Longbough has a surname and arms, but he is just a hedge knight.

 

19 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Fourth....I'm hesitating over making declarative statements about the Grand Captain of the Warrior's Sons:  the text simply says that "The Warrior's Sons had chosen a new Grand Captain".  Does this mean he was elected by popular vote of all members?  Can we say that definitively?  Or, do only the high-ranking officers vote?   It might not even be a formal "election" as such.  I mean it SOUNDS like Lord Commander elections in the Night's Watch, but I don't know.  How should the "Grand Captain" article phrase that?

I would just use "chose", since that is what the source material uses and we shouldn't extrapolate.

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Oh crud, this was probably already debated:

I thought the High Septon at the beginning of the Faith Militant uprising WAS the maternal uncle of Ceryse Hightower.  The one mentioned in 25 AC.

There are currently two separate articles treating them as two separate characters.

I'm re-reading the whole thing right now....

EDIT: 
But I LIKE the convoluted titles, they're hilarious!  :)

To be clear, Nittanian, that is my position as well:  I'm not sure if this should be taken as evidence of a "House Poore" or "House Whistler", it needs more confirmation.

 

 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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38 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Oh crud, this was probably already debated:

I thought the High Septon at the beginning of the Faith Militant uprising WAS the maternal uncle of Ceryse Hightower.  The one mentioned in 25 AC.

 

There are currently two separate articles treating them as two separate characters.

The High Septon in 25 AC was Ceryse's maternal uncle. But whether he was still the High Septon in 41 AC, or whether he had died before, we don't know. That's why there are separate pages. 

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1 hour ago, Nittanian said:

I agree, with WP:TITLE in mind, "High Septon (Pater)" seems ideal to me. GRRM identifies him as Pater, and its inclusion easily differentiates his article from the other High Septons. A Wiki of Ice and Fire isn't in-universe, so we don't use the convoluted naming (One has to say, 'the fat one,' or 'the one before the fat one,' or 'the old one who died in his sleep.') if we don't have to.

Should we then also use "High Septon (High Lickspittle)", instead of "High Lickspittle", and "High Septon (Robeson)", instead of "Robeson"?

And "High Septon (High Sparrow)", instead of "High Sparrow"?

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Whistler and Poore are correct. As Nittanian suggests, Poore may be more a family name rather than an indication that there is/was a House Poore.

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7 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Should we then also use "High Septon (High Lickspittle)", instead of "High Lickspittle", and "High Septon (Robeson)", instead of "Robeson"?

And "High Septon (High Sparrow)", instead of "High Sparrow"?

Hmm, good observation; I had forgotten about Robeson. To avoid unnecessary disambiguation, I think it would be better to have Pater, Robeson, High Lickspittle, High Sparrow etc. There aren't other characters named Pater, IIRC, so we wouldn't need "Pater (High Septon)" or "High Septon (Pater)". 

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13 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Should we then also use "High Septon (High Lickspittle)", instead of "High Lickspittle", and "High Septon (Robeson)", instead of "Robeson"?

And "High Septon (High Sparrow)", instead of "High Sparrow"?

Good questions for Elio, I abstain and will go with the format we're instructed to use.

...should we make a note or something about the High Septon (Aegon I) and "High Septon (Aenys I)"?  I'll keep digging.

Good to know on Whistler, that one was gnawing at me.

 

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Minor concern:  seems confirmed that Rhaena was born in 23 AC; in order to be 18 in 41 AC, etc.  Aenys and Alyssa wed in 22 AC, she's born "the following year".

Maegor was born in 12 AC.  Why does it say, when suggesting to betroth him to Rhaena, that "he had just turned twelve?"  Just difference of a few months?  Then he married Ceryse Hightower in 25 AC at the age of 13.  Two calendar years.  Well, maybe Rhaena had a nameday late in the calendar year and Maegor had one early in the year.

(shrug)  I chalk that up to difference of a few months.  I'm not going to play around with it.  Just in case anyone else was concerned.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

...should we make a note or something about the High Septon (Aegon I) and "High Septon (Aenys I)"? 

I'd say no. As far as we currently know, they are two separate High Septons. Only if there is something that suggests or implies that they are one and the same, such a section should be placed on the page.

 

21 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Minor concern:  seems confirmed that Rhaena was born in 23 AC; in order to be 18 in 41 AC, etc.  Aenys and Alyssa wed in 22 AC, she's born "the following year".

Maegor was born in 12 AC.  Why does it say, when suggesting to betroth him to Rhaena, that "he had just turned twelve?"  Just difference of a few months?  Then he married Ceryse Hightower in 25 AC at the age of 13.  Two calendar years.  Well, maybe Rhaena had a nameday late in the calendar year and Maegor had one early in the year.

(shrug)  I chalk that up to difference of a few months.  I'm not going to play around with it.  Just in case anyone else was concerned.

I'm not seeing the issue here? You could be right about Rhaena's birth having been late in the year, and Maegor's early, but isn't the only possible explanation. Visenya suggested the betrothal because of the discussion that Rhaena's birth had sparked, but we don't know how long she waited with suggesting it, nor when the discussion began (the day of her birth, or at some point in the following months?).

And that the rejected betrothal attempt occurred in 24 AC and Maegor's marriage to Ceryse a year later should not be a problem either. Their betrothal might simply have lasted between half a year and a year.

Maegor's marriage seems to have taken in the second half of 25 AC (and subsequently, at least we know that his birthday takes place in the first half, and that there were ~six months in between), as Maegor received Dark Sister on his 13th nameday, half a year before his wedding that same year.

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Ceryse Hightower is referred to in The Sons of the Dragon as Martyn Hightower's sister, yet she's listed in the family tree as Martyn's daughter.

On another matter, Big Jon Hogg (who was blinded) and Blind John Hogg are separate characters or was a name mispelled by Dozois? 

Edited by Gonzalo
Adding question about Jon Hogg

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15 hours ago, Gonzalo said:

Ceryse Hightower is referred to in The Sons of the Dragon as Martyn Hightower's sister, yet she's listed in the family tree as Martyn's daughter.

The World of Ice and Fire states that Ceryse was Martyn's daughter, so there is an inconsistency there. Ran is trying to fix this for Fire and Blood.

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:09 PM, Gonzalo said:

Ceryse Hightower is referred to in The Sons of the Dragon as Martyn Hightower's sister, yet she's listed in the family tree as Martyn's daughter.

On another matter, Big Jon Hogg (who was blinded) and Blind John Hogg are separate characters or was a name mispelled by Dozois? 

He *was* known as Big Jon Hogg, yet they start calling him Blind John Hogg after he was blinded.

I'm slowly parsing through the whole thing.

Also Rhaenys sorry if some of my additions are two...locquacious and pedantic.  A classic "wiki-dragon", my style is to write a lot, rather than risk writing too little (the Wiki-knights) - because it can always just be cut out :) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiDragon#Diagnosis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiKnight#History

I'm not trying to make more work for anyone.  And I know it isn't my house; I figure that anything not worth keeping will just get removed by someone else. 

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That's interesting, IMO. Could be worth trying.

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@Ran

Is Ser Maladon Moore actually a knight of Maegor's kingsguard? The wording in TSOTD is ambiguous to say the least.

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4 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Ran

Is Ser Maladon Moore actually a knight of Maegor's kingsguard? The wording in TSOTD is ambiguous to say the least.

Yes, he is.

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2 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yes, he is.

Thanks for answering!

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