Father of Hosts Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Why would they bring women with them?For comfort, cleaning etc. Why wouldn't they? Either way, you've missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 might makes right of courseSeeing that has been the justification for the Targaryens, Baratheons, Lannisters, Greyjoys, Starks, Tullys, Frey, Boltons, honestly all the nobles in the series, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sucellus Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 UnCat cannot read the books.Regardless of what she knows, it isn't justice if capital punishment kills the wrong people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total1402 Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 You sicken me.If somebody killed my son I would want revenge and for justice to be done. That is not a shocking or horrible thing and that certainly doesn't mean I approve of genocide. Stop trying to steer this conversation into something the topic isn't remotely about because you don't like me. This is NOT ABOUT GENOCIDE. Nobody except you is talking about this or trying to link it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Did we read the same books? She gets to King's Landing, finds Sansa isn't there, then pretty soon departs to find her. She doesn't join any Lannister cause. Both Jaime and Brienne have gone well out of their way not to break their oath, and Cat wants to kill them for it.Again.. how is that justice?You have information that UnCat doesn't. She has oathkeeper, a letter from the king, Tyrion's squire (Tyrion...the guy who forcibly married Sansa), her calling out to Jaime, defending Jaime. Unfortunately. UnCat lacks the books and is unable to see inside Brienne's head. She can, however, hear Brienne refuse to follow an order of her liege lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Martin's portrayal of unCat is a portrayal of someone who has been damned. She was one of the great beauties of Westeros and is now physically repulsive. She can't eat, drink, or sleep. She can't experience any form of pleasure, but must experience anger, grief, horror, and despair forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newwb Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Seeing that has been the justification for the Targaryens, Baratheons, Lannisters, Greyjoys, Starks, Tullys, Frey, Boltons, honestly all the nobles in the series, yes.ah, so its good because everyone else does it? thats always a nice justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Regardless of what she knows, it isn't justice if capital punishment kills the wrong people.Brienne shouldn't have made herself look extremely guilty, and then UnCat wouldn't have attempted to hang her. Also, she did refuse to serve a direct order from her superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisa Furukawa Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Working for Lannisters in their war against RobbOh, come on. Half the realm works for or has worked for the Lannisters! Does every single one of them deserve death? Does Pod deserve death for not being the traitor to his house and be a squire to his liege lord? He committed no crimes or terrible acts during his time working for Tyruon (besides the one below) and did not meet Cat or the Brotherhood during battle or with hostile intentions. He was a boy who once upon a time happened to work for a Lannister. If you think that's execution worthy, well... I just can't agree. At all.killing at least one man.1. The man he killed was trying to murder the man he's a squire for, a traitor turning on a member of the family he was sworn to protect during a battle. I've never heard a single person think his killing of Moore was in any way immoral or wrong.2. Cat and co. don't even know about that so even if it was enough to deserve a death for one's self, the Brotherhood weren't trying him or convicting him for that.Remember that whatever he did was worse than what even Merret (and 90%) of the Freys didWell, I don't think what happened to Merrett was justice either and felt sorry for him, but at least he was actually complicit and knowledgable about the Red Wedding before it happened and played a part in it (despite not personally killing anyone) and Cat personally saw him at the Twins.I absolutely stand by that Podrick Payne has done nothing whatsoever to deserve death. Nor Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Lady Stoneheart IS a monster IMO.Even if her desire for vengeance is justified (and it is) that doesn't negate the fact that proceeding as she does makes a person a monster. Even if she wasn't undead (still alive, that is. If Catlyn had somehow survived the RW), she would still be a monster if she took the same actions as Lady Stoneheart.War and violence and vengeance corrupts everybody who engages in it, even the best people who have the best intentions and justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sucellus Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Brienne shouldn't have made herself look extremely guilty, and then UnCat wouldn't have attempted to hang her.Hahaha.... what?I don't think being inarticulate in a stressful situation is worthy of the fucking death sentence. I seem to be pretty much alone in this thread though, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I genuinely didn't think it'd be remotely controversial for me to claim that Jaime had been made more sympathetic while Cat has been made less so. Kinda confused at the reaction.I like UnCat because it's an answer for those fanatical "We want capital justice!" type that spring up in the media, notably when a kid goes missing or is killed. When Robb is killed we want justice, then are terrified by UnCat's actions in ASoS and AFFC.Yet still, some fans demand every Frey and Lannister deserves to be hanged. I can't help but feel they've missed the point of what GRRM is trying to say.Please don't speak for everyone. I'm not ''terrified'' by LS and I don't think she is monstruous/evil. She's Cat as she was at the moment of her death; a woman mad with grief, I don't think the ressurection changed much about that; she did kill the Frey boy without even thinking about it once she saw Robb get offed. Her judging of Brienne and co. isin't exactly off given the mountain of evidence against the Maid of Tarth (and even then she gives her a ''chance'' at redemption. That's more than several characters get). She goes too far in her vengeance spree, of course, that's the point. but that doesn't make her more evil than, say, Dany crucifying 166 slavers in Meereen. Plus, so far AFAIK she has hanged male adult Freys or soldiers at their command, which is kinda fair given how war goes in Westeros, and most male Freys did indeed know about the RW. Hell, she even maintains an orphanage, of all things; that's way more kindness shown than half the characters in the series. For a supposedly dangerously mad and monstruous person, I find her to actually be kinda tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 and did not meet Cat or the Brotherhood during battle or with hostile intentions.He was actively searching to find her daughter and return Sansa to face judgement by Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 You have information that UnCat doesn't.She has oathkeeper, a letter from the king, Tyrion's squire (Tyrion...the guy who forcibly married Sansa), her calling out to Jaime, defending Jaime. Unfortunately. UnCat lacks the books and is unable to see inside Brienne's head. She can, however, hear Brienne refuse to follow an order of her liege lady.plus Brienne and Podrick are still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Is there really any other way to portray a character who's a living, rotted corpse? I just don't see how Martin could conceivably maker her anything other then what she is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 LOL, color me surprised that anyone feels sad for Merritt Frey, who absolutely took part in the RW, who was even given a specific task during the RW. Why does this asshole not deserve to be hanged, again? Because Cat is a zombie that makes it bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sucellus Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 The reason I like this series is that it isn't the black-and-white, good guys vs bad guys battle that some seem to think it is. I think GRRM would be pretty appalled to see so many people defending UnCat's actions.Entirely because her last name is Stark, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisa Furukawa Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 He was actively searching to find her daughter and return Sansa to face judgement by Cersei.No, he wasn't. And the very fact that neither UnCat nor the Brotherhood knew that either means they shouldn't have tried to execute him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 No, he wasn't. And the very fact that neither UnCat nor the Brotherhood knew that either means they shouldn't have tried to execute him.He was hanging around with Brienne and by all appearances that was Brienne's objective, thus it wouldn't be a stretch to believe he is following the same objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sucellus Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 LOL, color me surprised that anyone feels sad for Merritt Frey, who absolutely took part in the RW, who was even given a specific task during the RW. Why does this asshole not deserve to be hanged, again? Because Cat is a zombie that makes it bad?Nagisa said he felt sorry for Merritt because that's obviously what George's intention was while writing the scene, in order to make it more powerful. It's why we got to know him so much before he died, and why we experienced his fear alongside him. If people were punching the air when he got hanged, then they should really rethink themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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