On 2/10/2024 at 10:14 PM, The Commentator said:

It’s good if Arya serves as a sad, even cautionary, example of what happens to those who seek and commit murderous revenge. Catelyn’s is a punishment more severe than death. Her soul dies with each Frey she murders. With Arya, it’s her sanity and humanity that dies with each murder she committed.  

It's that saying about needing to dig two graves before setting out for revenge.  Arya has already set out like an arrow that has been loosed.  Her own grave is already waiting for her. 

Dany is a better leader when in comparison to Jon Snow. 

Jon Snow was acting out revenge when he executed Janos Slynt.  He set up a trap to use his power as commander to get his revenge on Janos Slynt. 

Rhaenys, Rhaenyra, Rhaella, Rhaegar, Rhaego.  All of them died before their time while they were still young.  Jon Snow could be a bastard son of Rhaeger and Lyanna.  Lyanna was crazy enough to dare name her bastard Rhaegar after his royal father.  Jon was killed for betraying the Night's Watch.  That puts him in the pattern of the Rhaes.  I am actually happy about his death.  But I am worried about Dany's dragon, Rhaegal. 

Lady Dustin has not given Eddard's bones to her dog.  Saying she wants to do it is not a crime.  It isn't a crime unless she actually goes through with it.  She hasn't earned punishment yet.  Doran has been planning but that is not the same as implementing.  He is guilty of evil within his mind but he doesn't deserve punishment until he does something with his plans.  Arya and Cat are the only ones who have done terrible deeds worthy of equally terrible punishments. 

Arya is easily one of the most tragic, if not the most, characters in the story.  The choices she made placed her in a no-win, no happy ending path.  There is no coming out of the depth of darkness where she is.  Her soul got lost after she killed too many people.  I think that is Arya's role.  She's the Stranger who will die as she has lived.  By violence.  

On 11/6/2023 at 2:06 AM, boltons are sick said:

Don't get me wrong, they are still pretty popular but I feel that their popularity peaked only because of the TV series (before it, hardly anyone had heard of these books from what I know). A lot of ASOIAF readers only started reading the books after they had watched the TV series. In my case, I read the books before watching the show, but still, the only reason why I knew about the books in the first place was because of the popularity of the TV series.

Now, 4 years after the finale,there is still no new book in sight which kinda kills the interest in the franchise in my opinion. People really didn't like the finale of Game of Thrones and right now, no one talks about Game of Thrones, and when they do mention it, it's only to complain about how much the finale sucked. This also makes it very unlikely that show watchers are going to give the books a chance because unlike the LOTR or Harry Potter movies which were beloved and drew in new readers.

In addition, I feel that the lack of a new book for so long is also not helping because it's causing a lot of people to move away from the fandom which means that only the hardcore fans have remained in the ASOIAF fandom.

Don't get me wrong, ASOIAF is still very popular, but I feel a lot of that popularity has faded away in the last few years both because the show's ending sucked and because there is no new book after more than 12 years of waiting from the previous book and 4 years after the end of the TV series.

Do you agree with me or do you think these things haven't affected the popularity of the book series?

Exactly.  This is not the only game in town.  There is competition for the fans' time and money from other novels, shows, and so on.  The ending of the show was awful and not in keeping with the overall story told in the text.  The lack of a new book to follow A Dance With Dragons is equally damaging. 

Some people are clumsy and don't pay attention to their surroundings.  Robert was an athletic guy.  He knew how to avoid the sharp edges.  Character had nothing to do with it. 

Bran sees a lot of really bad stuff.  It will be very easy for him to lose his sanity and do something homicidal on a large scale.  Like releasing wights into the 7kingdoms.  Instead of let loose the hounds its let loose the wights for Bran. 

3 hours ago, csuszka1948 said:

Sociopaths? You should call them "hard men making hard choices".

When it comes to Daenerys (or Jon Snow or Arya for Stark haters) making ruthless decisions and unleashing her dragons and the Dothraki on Westeros, she suddenly becomes a mad Queen needed to put down though.

It will be Mad Arya Stark who will be put down in the end.  Arya has lost her sanity as well as her morality.  But let's get back to the main question.  Dany is unquestionably a superior leader over Jon.  Jon sucked so bad at his job that even a mild mannered accountant like Bowen Marsh had to summon the courage to put Jon down like a rabid dog. 

Who are your favorite characters and why?

1.  Daenerys - Because I love the character and what she brings to the story. 

2  Barristan - He has lived a long life of honor while serving a long line of unworthy men.  He has found a redemptive arc and now serves the most worthy monarch of all in Dany. 

3. Missandei - Has a major role to play.  I feel she has a big part because of her talents for reading emotions. 

Bran is the most probable culprit (with Jon being second) to release the Wights into Westeros.  Talk of Jon's death will travel to Braavos and it will push Arya even more towards a maniacal urge to murder.  Arya will die and that will be the button that pushes Bran to release hell on Westeros. 

Is it Possible That Lyanna Committed Suicide?

It's not only possible but very likely.  She preferred death over marrying Robert Baratheon.  Eddard kept this truth from Robert to protect his feelings.  Rhaegar and Arthur found a Lyanna who was already in the early stages of pregnancy.  Lyanna was running to protect her baby.  Like Gilly would do years later.  The father, or the circumstances of the conception, one of the two, was not good for Rickard Stark.  So the father was either Brandon or a wildling like Mance.  The north would not accept and it will ruin his plans to bind his family to the Baratheons. 

Bran is Cat Tully's son.  He too carries the insanity genetics like his mom and aunt.  Give him too many visions of horror and his mind will break as easily as Arya's did. 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:10 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Bran has a chance to avoid the taint of insanity if he can obey Bloodraven and stick to Greenseeing. But his hope will be gone if he should follow Arya into taking revenge. A Bran who uses warging and skinchanging to carry out revenge will be an abomination. 

1 minute ago, Roswell said:

Quaithe is one of two women.  Shiera Seastar or Elisa Farman.  Whoever she is she is protecting Dany.  Pass beneath the shadow does not make sense for Asshai.  If anything, Dany will pass over Asshai.  She can fly on Drogon over the shadow.  Quaithe is suggesting to her to go to Asshai to learn the truth of the past.  There are other ways of learning about that past without physically going to Asshai.  Pass beneath the Shadow is referring to the Long Night.  Dany will have to wait long before she can see the Light again.  She will live beneath the cover of winter like everybody else who survive the battle with the Others and wait for summer to come back. 

On 8/24/2023 at 5:07 AM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

What do you think are the enigmatic Quaithe's true nature and motives ? 

Why does she appears to Daenerys and talks in particular, and no one else ? 

What was she doing in Qarth, and why was she a représentative of this city, despite being from Asshai ? Was she waiting for Daenerys to come here as part of a prophecy ? 

Also what are her motives into making predictions to Dany, telling her to pass beneath the Shadow, likely meaning to go to Asshai, and warning her about potential traitors and enemies ? Is she truthful in a cryptic way, or is she manipulating Dany ?

Does she have her own motives or is she a messenger for a god, religion or organisation of Asshai ?

Quaithe is one of two women.  Shiera Seastar or Elisa Farman.  Pass beneath the shadow does not make sense for Asshai.  If anything, Dany will pass over Asshai.  She can fly on Drogon over the shadow.  Quaithe is suggesting to her to go to Asshai to learn the truth of the past.  There are other ways of learning about that past without physically going to Asshai.  Pass beneath the Shadow is referring to the Long Night.  Dany will have to wait long before she can see the Light again.  She will live beneath the cover of winter like everybody else who survive the battle with the Others and wait for summer to come back. 

Ramsay is evil but smart.  He's cruel but very cunning.  Jon is not evil but Jon is an idiot with a small mind.  Both are bastards of the north with inferiority complexes.  Anger management issues afflict both men.  Ramsay is heavy built.  Jon is slim with a very long face.  Jon is the male version of Arya in terms of looks. 

On 4/4/2020 at 7:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I pulled up an old topic from long ago.  I thought it worth the effort to widen the scope of this discussion. 

We started off talking about the "ghosts" in the hallway and their swords.  I want to bring in additional materials that may help in the discussion, for those who would care to talk about this old topic.

From Pate:

There are at least four of these "candles."  Valyria is the accepted origin.

From Armen:

Why would a candle have sharp edges?  Only weapons have sharp edges.  Knowledge can be dangerous but not as dangerous as ignorance.  I don't agree with this part of Armen's opinion.

From Leo:

The source of light is obviously not a flame. 

From Armen:

No it does not.  Marwyn thinks it's obsidian though. 

From Samwell:

So what kind of light makes whites look like that?  Something that has ultra-violet.  The perfect light to use against creatures who live at night.  They burn instead of getting a sun tan. 

From Will:

So once again, we have swords that glow in the dark.  This one gives off blue light. 

From Ned:

Arthur's sword glows in the dark?  It is described as glass-like.

From Daenerys:

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

From Quaithe:

It is my opinion that the death of Khal Drogo lit the candles.  Khal Drogo is Nissa Nissa. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

So it is believed the Blood Betrayal caused the Long Night.  I'm doubtful, but let's continue.  It is obvious to me, Maiden-Made-of-Light is the Sun.  Lion of Night is the Moon.

From Old Nan:

This looks like a climate change to me.  Change the environment and it favors another species.  The definition of who is fittest can change.  Darkness and cold favor the white walkers.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

This is clear evidence.  The threat existed long before the blood betrayal took place.  Why else would the effort to build and guard these fortresses be sensible.  The size of the defense is equal to the seriousness of the threat.  The blood betrayal did not create the threat.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

The "ghosts" must have failed.  They are hailed as heroes in the records but I think the climate changed on its own.  The long night ended but the empire remained broken.  I believe this is important, but more on this later.  Parts of the old ruling families still exists and rule fractions of what was the old empire. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Amethyst is a purple-blue color.  This guy, Bu Gai, must have descended from the Amethyst Empress (family) of old. 

From George Martin: (not an exact quote)

From Quaithe:

From Daenerys and Quaithe:

From The World of Ice & Fire:

No people in their right mind would build with this stone in a place like this.  Unless it wasn't like this when it was built.  Asshai must have been normal in the past.  Something happened to corrupt the very stone of the city itself and contaminate the land around it.  Perhaps this is the after effects of the long night.

I know.  Whew that was long.  But I hope you will agree with me.  It is important for Daenerys Targaryen to learn this truth to avoid a repeat of what happened in this part of the world.  The Amethyst Empress was not an individual but a political faction and family branch.  The Red was also a political faction.  Much like the Tigers and the Elephants in the free cities today.  The blood betrayal caused a political and social divide.  The empire could no longer properly defend its borders because they were divided.  Daenerys assumed Asshai but Quaithe probably meant Yin.  Lightbringer's role is to restore and to rebuild after the end of the long night.  It is easier to accept Lightbringer being glass lanterns to light the world through the long night.  It may even be a weapon because it is sharp.  At least some enable communication.  I don't rule out that there is an actual sword called Lightbringer but an object with multiple uses, weapon, lantern, and telephone, is much more useful.  The Valyrians perhaps didn't know what it was and repurposed the glass objects into communication devices.  The phrase "to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" mean the long night cannot be stopped nor avoided.  Daenerys will have to live through the darkness before she can again enjoy light and warmth.  Which is fitting because the last title will be A Dream of Spring.  Knowing this truth will help her prepare herself and her people to live through the long night and rebuild afterwards.  The last part is something the previous Azor Ahai was never able to do.

George didn't say how many of these ancestors of Dany there were in total.  Should the number turn out to be 7?  They might be the source of the Seven and worshiped by the Andals.  Dany has many godlike qualities.  She is not only the one Targaryen who brought life back to the dragons.  She is the most beautiful woman in the world and one very intelligent woman. 

On 6/10/2023 at 7:29 PM, Damsel in Distress said:

les yeux sans visage

Slavery in various forms. Slavery. Regardless of what you call it. 

Identity theft on another level.  Stealing the identity and using that in the act of breaking the law and murdering for profit. 

Theon?  He's too much of a wreck to lead but he can vote in the next Km and throw his support to his sister. 

Following rules after having the freedom she has is not possible.  Arya can live among the wildlings where just about anything goes.  She can live with the direwolf in a Keep far to the north. 

@Sydney Mae

Bowen Marsh had just gotten things sorted out at the wall and Arya sticks him with that sword.  Tragedy and more tragedy.  

If Jon had only minded the business of the NW instead of sending Mace and the spearwives to get his sister away from her husband.  None of the troubles that came later would have happened.  We should and we do blame Jon Snow.

Arya should go to prison for her violent crimes.  It will be an injustice if she gets away without receiving punishment. 

On 2/28/2023 at 5:14 PM, Bowen 747 said:

It is fair to call Arya mad.  Her aunt and mother went mad.  Stress, grief, and all of that trauma pushed her too far.  Her mind is like glass that dropped on a stone floor.  It is shattered.  What we can argue about is how much accountability and punishment to assign because obviously she is very impaired.  Her bad lot in life has to be taken into account and will significantly lessen the sentence. 

@Many-Faced Votary  The black brothers won't have a problem with Jon's removal.  The reason nobody tried to stop Bowen and his gang is because the brothers present in the Shield Hall heard Jon's admission of improper conduct.  Jon really pushed their tolerance when he told them he was going to lead an attack on the Boltons. 

On 2/4/2023 at 10:49 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Some talk farther down the forum are trashing the loyal steward of the Nights Watch, Bowen Marsh.  The attacks are not fair.  Marsh was not an ambitious man.  He was not looking for political advancement or personal material gain.  He and his Brothers assassinated Lord Commander Jon Snow because they had a duty to.  Jon Snow put them all in danger.  They needed to end his disastrous leadership before more damage is done. 

I found this very interesting debate on Reddit.  I like what the user Feldman had to say.

 

 

 

Jon abused the authority entrusted to him.  His intent to start a war with Ramsay is a violation of all the Watch stood for and it is wrong.  Bowen Marsh is not the villain here.