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Did Stannis honestly ever have a chance?

LordPathera

By LordPathera,
in General (ASoIaF)

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jongtu Squire

jongtu

Posted
Posted

Everything you have said

Just stop. I feel more stupid each word I read.

You are just arguing for the point of arguing. Your arguments make no sense and thrn you blabber on about other peoples arguments making no sense.

Basically you are coming off as a huge douche. If that was intended then good work.

Otherwise. Get a single argument. Find proof to support this argument. Present argument.

Try the PETEL approach.

Point - Establish your argument.

Eg. Stannis is bad.

Explain - Cause he no shower.

Technique - How has the author expressed this?

Eg. This is exemplified through alliteration. .

Example - Give an example of this technique

Eg. Stinky Stannis Smells

Link - Link back to your main point.

Eg. Stinky Stannis is bad because he smells.

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Iona Council Member

Iona

Posted
Posted

The strongwine plot would work just as well during a melee as during a hunt. Thats would be one way, the other is find a sellsword like Bronn.

Might be, might be. But I do think that the other melee participants might (at least a little bit) be reluctant to wipe the floor with a s**tfaced king Robert. The boar on the other hand had no reservations...

I know it's been "used" already with ser Hugh of the Vale, but I suspected that Lancel might have tweaked Robert's armour or perhaps meant to fasten it a bit loosely or something.

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Stan the Man Baratheon Council Member

Stan the Man Baratheon

Posted
Posted

Just stop. I feel more stupid each word I read.

You are just arguing for the point of arguing. Your arguments make no sense and thrn you blabber on about other peoples arguments making no sense.

Basically you are coming off as a huge douche. If that was intended then good work.

Otherwise. Get a single argument. Find proof to support this argument. Present argument.

Try the PETEL approach.

Point - Establish your argument.

Eg. Stannis is bad.

Explain - Cause he no shower.

Technique - How has the author expressed this?

Eg. This is exemplified through alliteration. .

Example - Give an example of this technique

Eg. Stinky Stannis Smells

Link - Link back to your main point.

Eg. Stinky Stannis is bad because he smells.

Exactly how i feel when reading through the Winterfellian arguments

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Iona Council Member

Iona

Posted
Posted

Keep it clean, guys. Winterfellian had some good points, both against Stannis and against some of the statements you've made/reasons you've given. He just feels strongly about the matters at hand and gets frustrated by your undying love and fervor for the Man.



I love Stannis but I don't necessarily approve everything he's done so I like to challenge the more devoted fans every now and then. I don't take it too seriously and I can both appreciate their commitment and smile at their devotion and ability to defend everything he's ever done.



What I'm trying to say is that we all should try to keep it civil, pro or against Stannis.


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peterbound Council Member

peterbound

Posted
Posted

Just stop. I feel more stupid each word I read.

You are just arguing for the point of arguing. Your arguments make no sense and thrn you blabber on about other peoples arguments making no sense.

Basically you are coming off as a huge douche. If that was intended then good work.

Otherwise. Get a single argument. Find proof to support this argument. Present argument.

Try the PETEL approach.

Point - Establish your argument.

Eg. Stannis is bad.

Explain - Cause he no shower.

Technique - How has the author expressed this?

Eg. This is exemplified through alliteration. .

Example - Give an example of this technique

Eg. Stinky Stannis Smells

Link - Link back to your main point.

Eg. Stinky Stannis is bad because he smells.

I'll bite:

Point: Stannis is ineffectual as a character, and a leader (I'll leave less of a man out of the argument)

Explanation: Every action Stannis takes in the books, leads to failure, and down right comedy gold. He is set up in the books as an example of poor leadership, and effect of said leadership on your rule

Expression/Examples by the author: Stannis, rightly so, is made the foil of most of Robert's curliest jokes (the fucking in his marriage bed, the 'assignment' to dragon stone), Stannis also fails.. again and again. Killing Renly is a result of dark magic by a poor advisor (representing the 'dark side' or evil in the book), The assault on King's Landing was a fucking disaster.. even though he should have, by all accounts won, hell, even the main plot mover: Stannis backing the incest claim, is made out to be foolish due to Stannis' poor character traits and perception throughout the kingdom. Even Stannis' conversion is half hearted and weak, like the man. His flight to the North has proven to be a disaster, and his inability to govern/rule effectively will destroy him on that end as well.

Link: I"m sure you've read the books, it's amazing how anyone can come to any other conclusion than the man is a fucktard, and a tool. I'm not getting how he has inspired this type of fandom on this side of the board. As I stated IAT, it must be a Floob thing.

ETA: Also, your PETEL approach is silly. I'm not sure if that's something you've developed yourself, or you took some third rate philosophy class, but it's constricting, and down right poorly thought out.

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Iona Council Member

Iona

Posted
Posted

Very good use of the previously introduced PETEL method peterbound, an admirable effort. But for the sake of civil argumentation the f-words might need replacing and most importantly, like I tried to say above, targeting people behind the discussion instead of the actual matters on the table is poor debating.



Stannis and his multiple fails and ineffectuality are one of the most important reason for me to cheer him on. We can spend years arguing why he always seems to start off from a poor position (his own fault/he was denied things he deserved by others), but he is constantly painted out as an underdog, and people just love to cheer them on!


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E-Ro Council Member

E-Ro

Posted
Posted

I'll bite:

Point: Stannis is ineffectual as a character, and a leader (I'll leave less of a man out of the argument)

Explanation: Every action Stannis takes in the books, leads to failure, and down right comedy gold. He is set up in the books as an example of poor leadership, and effect of said leadership on your rule

Expression/Examples by the author: Stannis, rightly so, is made the foil of most of Robert's curliest jokes (the fucking in his marriage bed, the 'assignment' to dragon stone), Stannis also fails.. again and again. Killing Renly is a result of dark magic by a poor advisor (representing the 'dark side' or evil in the book), The assault on King's Landing was a fucking disaster.. even though he should have, by all accounts won, hell, even the main plot mover: Stannis backing the incest claim, is made out to be foolish due to Stannis' poor character traits and perception throughout the kingdom. Even Stannis' conversion is half hearted and weak, like the man. His flight to the North has proven to be a disaster, and his inability to govern/rule effectively will destroy him on that end as well.

Link: I"m sure you've read the books, it's amazing how anyone can come to any other conclusion than the man is a fucktard, and a tool. I'm not getting how he has inspired this type of fandom on this side of the board. As I stated IAT, it must be a Floob thing.

ETA: Also, your PETEL approach is silly. I'm not sure if that's something you've developed yourself, or you took some third rate philosophy class, but it's constricting, and down right poorly thought out.

Wow. I gotta say, the best part of your posts are your varied usages of the word fuck.(saw your posts in the other thread about stannis) My personal favorite is "fucktard" hope you know that isn't really an excuse to make such a shitty post and all this does is make you look like a jackass. I have no idea what a "floob" is but I'm sure it's some sort of pathetic attempt at making yourself feel superior over having been a member of a book forum for a long time. Congratulations brah.

Anyway you need a reread of the books pretty badly. Stannis is shown to be one of the best and most inspirational leaders in the series. He has numerous victories to his name and one of the most dedicated followers in asoiaf in the form of davos.

How was his move on the north disastrous? Did you read storm and dance yet? He saved the wall and the nights watch and removed the ironborn from deep wood motte. He just got a huge loan from the iron bank and is about to win a large victory against Bolton. Your assertion that his moves in the north are failures is categorically false.

Looking back at this post I realize I may not have said fuck enough for you, sorry dude, I tried.

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Iona Council Member

Iona

Posted
Posted

Well seeing as he got given the series' strongest dues ex machima I'd say yes he did have a pretty strong chance

I'm getting the sense that what you are referring to might be more aptly called deus-ex-vagina, but I'm not prepared to say yet if it is the strongest in the series so far, I'm kind of inclined towards the dragons. But without the shadow babies Stannis probably would have been taken out of the game pretty much before he even got started.

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Iona Council Member

Iona

Posted
Posted

E-Ro! Just because the big boys use the f-word wherever they can to make them feel like bosses doesn't mean you need to do the same. I'm trying to keep this thread from escalating and you're not helping! :whip:


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aceluby Council Member

aceluby

Posted
Posted

Wow. I gotta say, the best part of your posts are your varied usages of the word fuck.(saw your posts in the other thread about stannis) My personal favorite is "fucktard" hope you know that isn't really an excuse to make such a shitty post and all this does is make you look like a jackass. I have no idea what a "floob" is but I'm sure it's some sort of pathetic attempt at making yourself feel superior over having been a member of a book forum for a long time. Congratulations brah.

Anyway you need a reread of the books pretty badly. Stannis is shown to be one of the best and most inspirational leaders in the series. He has numerous victories to his name and one of the most dedicated followers in asoiaf in the form of davos.

How was his move on the north disastrous? Did you read storm and dance yet? He saved the wall and the nights watch and removed the ironborn from deep wood motte. He just got a huge loan from the iron bank and is about to win a large victory against Bolton. Your assertion that his moves in the north are failures is categorically false.

Looking back at this post I realize I may not have said fuck enough for you, sorry dude, I tried.

To be fair... going North was Davos' idea, and had Jon not given Stannis the advice of a lifetime to gain the support of the Mountain clans, Deepwood would have been the end of his campaign. Now his entire host is freezing to death and almost completely dependent on those clans Jon had the foresight to get Stannis. He's in a pretty tight spot and in almost every case it is someone else's good judgement that saves him, namely Davos.

Looking at it now it seems like all this Stannis love is just misplaced Davos love.

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