Did Stannis honestly ever have a chance?

[Iona]

I think the careless part clarifies things. Robert's trying to be generous with his brothers, but he doesn't quite grasp the fact that giving Storm's End to Renly over Stannis could be seen as a slight. On the other end of the spectrum, Stannis seems to fail to grasp the significance of being made the Lord of Dragonstone. That's the traditional seat of the Targaryen successor and, as Martin states, by making Stannis its lord, he is conveying that status unto him. Instead of this being some plot by Robert to slight Stannis, I think it makes more sense that this situation is just another example of the breakdown of the bonds between the Baratheon brothers. Neither Robert nor Stannis considers the motivations of the other and it results in a misunderstanding that Stannis believes to be a slight. Whether it is or isn't doesn't really matter in this case. I certainly think that explanation makes more sense than the alternative.

To be clear, I don't blame Stannis for not understanding Robert's intent. One of the underlying truths of this series is the impact of family and their dynamics on individual members of the family. Family is a blindspot for most characters in the books. Whether it's Tywin, whose failings as a father are going have lead to the decay of his house, or Ned, who lies to the realm to save his daughter, or Cat, who misjudges Lysa, or any other number of characters, family is so critically important in Westeros that it can not be understated.

Your explanation covers the bigger picture instead of me nit-picking on small details and is much more humane and forgiving than mine.

I almost feel ashamed... :blushing:

[Señor de la Tormenta]

I think that if we start fighting between Bob and Stan we are just making weaker the Baratheon front for our evil enemys.

They are both great leaders belonging to the only legal royal dinasty in westeros. Big Bob is gone, but we have Stannis, and he is going to fight until the end and then some more.

[Bronn Urgandy]

I know, I know, it was VARYS! But we played around with the idea of how it could have happened, and in the end it's not that far fetched for Cersei to hope Bobby suffers a little accident during a drunken rampage in the melee.

Sorry never meant to sound rude, Ser Pounce says "its clearly stated in the text" when the words have actually come out of the mouth of a notorious liar who has his own agenda. I do not doubt that Cersie wanted Robert to get bashed up a bit, in some ways I dont blame her, but killing him is a big move. Only when it becomes necessary does it happen Stannis fleeing and keeping his mouth shut prevents that necessity in his own mind, seeing that he believes the knowledge killed Jon Arryn. Ignorance being the Kings best defence, until proof or a source he trusts can be found.

I think up until the hunt Cersie is acting out her own vindictness, there is nothing in her thought process I can recall that would suggest failed assassination attempts, only years of two way abuse. Stannis cant really plan for that, and often would be protecting Robert from himself. Even now hes not sure if Robert was murdered or not.

[Iona]

snip

It's OK, I didn't feel it was that rude at all (seen a lot of rudeness around here lately), I was emphasizing that I know that it was Varys, him of all people(!), so it was always a bit dubious, but I'm naive enough to believe that even the Spider can sometimes say something that actually might make sense and could possibly, supposedly, presumably, maybe even be true...

[Nictarion]

Yeah, I can't believe he was given three dragons.

Yeah, it was totally out of nowhere to. Its not like the Targaryens derived their power from dragons or anything.

Of course we all know the Baratheons are known for shadowbabies, at least it didn't just come out of nowhere, like dragons that have no history or precedent in ASoIaF.

[Nictarion]

Stannis is shown to be one of the best and most inspirational leaders in the series.

Lol. Inspirational is definitely one thing Stannis is not.

[Minsc]

Yeah, it was totally out of no where to. Its not like the Targaryens derived their power from dragons or anything.

Of course we all know the Baratheons are known for shadowbabies, at least it didn't just come out of nowhere, like dragons that have no history or precedent in ASoIaF.

To be fair, Stannis was set up as having consulted with a sorceress(Mel) before the shadowbabies occurred. Therefore, it might have been expected that said sorceress could have some magical tricks under her sleeves that might help Stannis overcome his enemies.

[E-Ro]

Lol. Inspirational is definitely one thing Stannis is not.

Tell that to davos, who was inspired to learn how to read by Stannis. In, if i might add, one of the most moving scenes in the entire series. Imagine that, a lowborn man raised up to be hand and lord of a vast stretch of land(the rainwood) thats plenty inspirational for me. Especially compared to the other candidates for the throne.

[Minsc]

Tell that to davos, who was inspired to learn how to read by Stannis. In, if i might add, one of the most moving scenes in the entire series. Imagine that, a lowborn man raised up to be hand and lord of a vast stretch of land(the rainwood) thats plenty inspirational for me. Especially compared to the other candidates for the throne.

Dany liberates three cities worth of slaves, I am not even a Dany fan but I am sorry that is a ton more inspirational then motivating someone to learn to read.

Also, Aegon raises a lowborn man into being the first knight of his Kingsguard, while Renly accepts a woman into his equivalent.

[Sansa_Stark]

Tell that to davos, who was inspired to learn how to read by Stannis. In, if i might add, one of the most moving scenes in the entire series. Imagine that, a lowborn man raised up to be hand and lord of a vast stretch of land(the rainwood) thats plenty inspirational for me. Especially compared to the other candidates for the throne.

I thought it was said that the common men had faith in Stannis in one of Asha's chapters?

[Antler's Fury]

Dany liberates three cities worth of slaves, I am not even a Dany fan but I am sorry that is a ton more inspirational then motivating someone to learn to read.

Stannis' men are willing to cross a makeshift bridge of burning ships to take King's Landing, and then attack a wildling horde twenty times their size and equipped with mammoths and giants at what they believe is the literal end of the world while shouting his name. Sounds like an inspiring figure to me.

[Sansa_Stark]

"Whatever doubts his lords might nurse, the common men seemed to have faith in their king."

I'm sorry, but saying Stannis isn't inspirational doesn't seem fair.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Stannis' men are willing to cross a makeshift bridge of burning ships to take King's Landing, and then attack a wildling horde twenty times their size and equipped with mammoths and giants at what they believe is the literal end of the world shouting his name. Sounds like an inspiring figure to me.

Exactly Stannis inspires Staunch loyalty amongst his men. You might hate him but you can't say that he is not an Inspiring figure.

[Nictarion]

Tell that to davos, who was inspired to learn how to read by Stannis. In, if i might add, one of the most moving scenes in the entire series. Imagine that, a lowborn man raised up to be hand and lord of a vast stretch of land(the rainwood) thats plenty inspirational for me. Especially compared to the other candidates for the throne.

He inspiring to one man that he rose from a smuggler to a lord, bravo. He is not inspiring to the masses.

[E-Ro]

“Whatever doubts his lords might nurse, the common men seemed to have faith in their king. Stannis had smashed Mance Rayder’s wildlings at the Wall and cleaned Asha and her ironborn out of Deepwood Motte; he was Robert’s brother, victor in a famous sea battle off Fair Isle, the man who had held Storm’s End all through Robert’s Rebellion. And he bore a hero’s sword, the enchanted blade Lightbringer, whose glow lit up the night.”

[OnionAhaiReborn]

I thought it was inspirational when Melisandre motivated Stannis to learn how to touch women. Only time I cried reading the books.

[Nictarion]

and then attack a wildling horde twenty times their size and equipped with mammoths and giants at what they believe is the literal end of the world while shouting his name. Sounds like an inspiring figure to me.

All 1500 of them. And there choice was stay at DS and wait to be killed by Lannister/Tyrell forces or go to the wall and fight poorly armed and untrained soldiers, yeah I'd choose the the latter to.

[E-Ro]

Dany liberates three cities worth of slaves, I am not even a Dany fan but I am sorry that is a ton more inspirational then motivating someone to learn to read.

Also, Aegon raises a lowborn man into being the first knight of his Kingsguard, while Renly accepts a woman into his equivalent.

lol,yeah bringing war, famine, destruction, and general shittiness to a whole continent is really inspirational. People begging to be sold into slavery, that's inspiration for ya!

As for people in the kingsguard. Great. Stannis has a HAND OF THE KING that was lowborn AND lowborn men in his personal guard(clayton suggs) Nothing comes close to that.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

lol,yeah bringing war, famine, destruction, and general shittiness to a whole continent is really inspirational. People begging to be sold into slavery, that's inspiration for ya!

As for people in the kingsguard. Great. Stannis has a HAND OF THE KING that was lowborn AND lowborn men in his personal guard(clayton suggs) Nothing comes close to that.

Exactly how on Earth you can say Dany is more inspirational than Stannis. That's a bit far fetched not to mention a tad stupid.

[E-Ro]

Exactly how on Earth you can say Dany is more inspirational than Stannis. That's a bit far fetched not to mention a tad stupid.

Yeah. You know what, im making that quote my sig.