[Spoilers] The Princess and the Queen, complete spoilers discussion

[rondo has three heads]

I won't try to jump into the discussion on page 82. All I'll say is that, while this story really got me excited for some of the potential tales to be told in WOIAF, this story also (and I know such lines of thinking have been brought up before) kind of ticked me off. How much time was spent on this vs. ASOIAF? Because in the end, this tale did not amount to very much but a bloated summary.

Even overlooking the fact that it is a "history," the narrative became super choppy at times (Meanwhile here, Then don't forget this is happening here, Now let's read about this) and the style became pretty irritating (at one point the Septon says "The heart of a dragon is...." and then a few sentences later "Who can understand the heart of a dragon." Uh, you just did!)

Anyways, I actually enjoyed it a bit more than I'm leading on, and a few hundred additional pages of similar stories would be a pleasure to read. But as a stand alone, this thing needed some serious editing after the midway point and some more "character" (as in, characters!) throughout.

[dotheknifefight]

Furthermore, is it possible Alys Rivers could be Alysanne Blackwood, or Black Aly? Her birthdate makes her about 17 by the time Aemond would have met her.

She's an Alys born in the Riverlands. The name Black Aly indicates some connection to magic or sorcery.

Strange to think there would be two magic "Alys"es in the Riverlands of about the same age.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I've already assumed the Velaryon wife of Aegon III thing has changed :) I was also under the assumption it was Rhaena.

(can i see that Ran quote?)

Targs and Velaryons had been breeding together for a long time by the Dance, so its entirely possible for Corlys to have dragonblood. However, you make a good point. Its one I've thought about but shied away from in the past. But i guess I shouldn't have. I've long thought the two Hulls to be Laenor's. I thought the passage from the Green Council was more to say that Laenor was pretty sexually active with more than just his wife.

Here it is :)

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100284-spoilers-the-princess-and-the-queen-complete-spoilers-discussion/page-38#entry5201227

[Grievous]

Just going by the MUSH information on House Corbray and Rhaena's stay in the Vale, I believe she ends up marrying a Corbray.

In the MUSH this is Ser Corwyn, "a famous knight, wielder of the Valyrian steel sword Lady Forlorn, a regent of King Aegon III, killed at a parley outside Runestone (d. 135)", which is not necessarily entirely canon. I suspect the marriage to a Corbray part to be so, though.

Also, do we know if the sword Lady Forlorn goes back further in Corbray history?

[dotheknifefight]

Just going by the MUSH information on House Corbray and Rhaena's stay in the Vale, I believe she ends up marrying a Corbray.

In the MUSH this is Ser Corwyn, "a famous knight, wielder of the Valyrian steel sword Lady Forlorn, a regent of King Aegon III, killed at a parley outside Runestone (d. 135)", which is not necessarily entirely canon. I suspect the marriage to a Corbray part to be so, though.

Also, do we know if the sword Lady Forlorn goes back further in Corbray history?

At first I thought "WTF?" but then I saw you didn't quote the right part.

His second wife was a Targaryen princess, and they had a stillborn child. He must have married the Targaryen princess between 130-134AC, as he dies in 135. She was there for that to happen. However, if he changes Aegon III's second wife I can imagine this changing, too.

Or, another possibility: Rhaena marries Corwyn and then he dies a few years later.

He remarries Aegon III after his first wife, Jaehaera, dies.

GRRM did reportedly write a novella's worth of story basically about what happened during Aegon III's kingship.

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

I've been gone a long time, so forgive me for bringing up stuff from long ago:

Bloodraven could have seen and at least tried to communicate with Daemon through the Weirwood tree no matter what year he was in. Its been pretty established by Bran's POV chapters in ADWD that you can see throughout time.

RE: Daemon's Old God connections...

If Aenys' political non-Targaryen marriage was to a Stark (which would be why Jaehaerys and Alysanne were practically the only royals to travel north to Winterfell and the Wall, and Jaehaerys builds a Kingsroad to link the North to Kingslanding) then there would be a connection to the Old Gods in his blood (Also, Alysanne's description includes "hair white as snow" and "crows feet". Hints?).

If Jaehaerys and Alysanne negotiated a Stark marriage for Baelon, it would give Daemon an even bigger connection to the Old Gods. This would give weight to the phrase spoken by Greatjon : "It was the dragons we married!" (before you say it, yes I can see how this can be a figure of speech, too)

With a possible connection to the Old Gods, it becomes much more reasonable for Daemon to have lived out his live on the Isle of Faces. Perhaps he did live long enough for there to be contact with Brynden Rivers.

As far as cutting the Weirwood tree, I don't see that as disrespectful at all but perhaps a direct message to or reminder for the Old Gods. It seems as though he is communicating to them, not vandalizing them. It seems to me, through his actions - the time spent in the Godswood, his marking the Weirwood tree - that he does have a connection to the Old Gods. So I come back to my point about Aenys' or Baelon's wife.

snip*

RE: Nettles

I took the blood on her riding leathers to be an indication of Daemon deflowering her. Is that too morbid?

RE: Sheepstealer

I have figured this dragon to be the one Dany's outrider rode through in Clash of Kings

Re: Daemon and the OG's

I'm a big proponent of this theory. I think Daemon probably lived on the Isle of Faces long enough to meet his bastard great-grandson.

I also felt like the text foreshadowed a connection between Daemon and Bloodraven. Daemon went to the riverlands and rallied the Lords of the Trident to the Blacks, specifically bringing the Blackwoods to his cause but not the Brackens. The Blackwoods had as many as 3 commanders in the field: the new Lord of Raventree Benjicot Blackwood, his father Samwell presumably died at the command of Blackwood forces in a battle preceding the fishfeed, and Red Robb Rivers the Bowman of Raventree at command of 300 archers who was said to be the finest archer in all of Westeros. Red Robb is a Blackwood bastard who commands an elite company 300 archers...Bloodraven is a Blackwood bastard who commands an elite company of 300 archers. Daemon is Bloodraven's great-grandfather. Daemon wielded Dark Sister...Bloodraven wielded Dark Sister. Daemon had a "pale stranger" he trusted completely...I immediately thought Bloodraven [eta: not that bloodraven was the pale stranger, just that he strikes me as someone who would be described as such]. Hoster Blackwood references some this in his discussion w/ Jaime in ADwD explaining cyclical nature of the Blackwood/Bracken conflict even speaking of old wounds bleeding anew.

If it's true the theory that Aerys married a Stark would certainly connect Daemon to the Old Gods and give him blood of the First Men. In which case he could in fact be a greenseer, though I think it's unlikely for a number of reasons. That said thanks for adding this to this discussion, I had seen this in another thread but didn't think to bring it up here in relation to Daemon and the Old Gods.

Re: Nettles

I think she was involved in blood sacrifice and could even be linked to Old Gods/Children. It's been proposed that she could have been Leaf who said she had seen the dance and lived over 200 years. She also described in greater detail than any of the other seeds. I think this is because she was unique among them not just in that her appearance and bonding method were different but that it was significantly different warranting distinction and elaboration that isn't provided for the others. It's funny the seed who is described in the greatest detail is the most mysterious, and not just because she lived.

Re: Sheepstealer:

Someone up thread proposed Tyrion might have glimpsed a dragon through the fog at the Sorrows in ADwD and it could have been Sheepstealer. Which even though it's highly unlikely it's still my favorite theory explaining what happened to Nettles and her dragon.

snip*

Daemon has spend time in KL, on Dragonstone, in the Stepstones and in Essos. But there has been no mention of him spending any time of his life in the north. Of course, that doesn't automatically mean that he has never been there. But Daemon has no connection to the Old Gods until he arrives at Harrenhal, where he stands vigil. Does Harrenhal even have a sept? If not, it could mean that that was the reason why Daemon waited for Aemond in the Godswood. Another reason could be because the Godswood was outside, and he could see Aemon coming.

snip*

Daemon has no connection that we know of, of course, we know next to nothing about him.

Yes, there is a sept in Harrenhal but it's collapsed by the time Arya sees it in clash, and probably during the dance seeing as only rats have prayed there for the last 300 years and it's next to the most ruinous of the 5 towers:

The Tower of Ghosts was the most ruinous of Harrenhal’s five immense towers. It stood dark and desolate behind the remains of a collapsed sept where only rats had come to pray for near three hundred years. It was there she waited to see if Gendry and Hot Pie would come. It seemed as though she waited a long time. The horses nibbled at the weeds that grew up between the broken stones while the clouds swallowed the last of the stars. Arya took out the dagger and sharpened it to keep her hands busy. Long smooth strokes, the way Syrio had taught her. The sound calmed her.

I don't think these explanations for why Daemon was in the godswood (it's just fill in for a sept, line of sight) explains the marks on the heart tree or the illusion made to them by Hoster Blackwood in Jaime's ADwD chapter.

Even if his time in Harrenhal was his first connection to the Old Gods, imo, TPatQ is full of additional hints that foreshadow Daemon's connection to them at some point beyond the time covered in the text. The Pale Stranger in King's Landing whom he trusted completely, the only other reference in the series to a pale stranger is the weirwood that Brienne sees out at the whispers. The term vigil used to describe Daemon's time in Harrenhal and Cat's description of the green men on the Isle of Faces who keep their " silent watch" (i.e. vigil) hinting at his possible survival (which is all but confirmed by Ran) and reemergence on the Isle of Faces after the time covered in the TPatQ.

snip*

agreed.

Didn't Bloodraven have slightly more connections? Say, being a greenseer? Being involved in magic? Having weirwood arrows (that was him, IIRC)? Those things point to the Old Gods and the Children.

Yes, Bloodraven has a number of connections to the Old Gods: weirwood bow, weirwood arrows, from a house that has kept the old gods, w/ confirmed blood of the First Men, and he's a confirmed greenseer. We know a lot more about BR than we do about DT. That said even w/ the little info that we have on him in TPatQ there seems to be a number of things that point to the Old Gods and the Children.

[Maia]

There must have been another sept at Harrenhal besides the ruined one, which couldn't have been built by the Drowned God-worshipping Harren, BTW. As far as we know, none of the Houses that held Harrenhal after Aegon's Conquest were followers of the Old Gods.

Yea, I also suspect that Rhaena (or Baela, but she is less likely due to her injuries, IMHO) was Aegon III's second wife in this new version of the history surrounding Aegon III, which lacks the Velaryon regent.

Since Rand hinted that Baela survived the Dance and didn't have to join the Faith because of her disfigurements, I wonder if she didn't marry Alyn Velaryon. After all, she or Rhaena, whichever is older, would have been the Velaryon heir after Jace's death, if Corlys didn't box through the legitimization of the Hull brothers. So, maybe she got to be Lady Velaryon by marriage, after all, as a consolation prize and to prevent her descendants from contesting the lordship. And Alyn later cheated on her with her niece Elaena ;).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There must have been another sept at Harrenhal besides the ruined one, which couldn't have been built by the Drowned God-worshipping Harren, BTW. As far as we know, none of the Houses that held Harrenhal after Aegon's Conquest were followers of the Old Gods.

Yea, I also suspect that Rhaena (or Baela, but she is less likely due to her injuries, IMHO) was Aegon III's second wife in this new version of the history surrounding Aegon III, which lacks the Velaryon regent.

Since Rand hinted that Baela survived the Dance and didn't have to join the Faith because of her disfigurements, I wonder if she didn't marry Alyn Velaryon. After all, she or Rhaena, whichever is older, would have been the Velaryon heir after Jace's death, if Corlys didn't box through the legitimization of the Hull brothers. So, maybe she got to be Lady Velaryon by marriage, after all, as a consolation prize and to prevent her descendants from contesting the lordship. And Alyn later cheated on her with her niece Elaena ;).

Good possibility about Baela and Rhaena.

Could you provide the quote of Ran's hint?

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

There must have been another sept at Harrenhal besides the ruined one, which couldn't have been built by the Drowned God-worshipping Harren, BTW. As far as we know, none of the Houses that held Harrenhal after Aegon's Conquest were followers of the Old Gods.

It's entirely possible, but is there anything from the text to support this? Because, while Arya could be wrong, she seems to date the destruction of the Sept to Aegon's attack on Harrenhal. It's entirely possible Harren built the sept. He didn't cut down the heart tree in the godswood but cutdown other weirwoods, so it's possible he accommodated other faiths w/in his keep. Harrenhal was built to be shown off (bear pit and general excess) so perhaps Black Harren had planned on hosting people of all faiths and wanted to show how grand his keep was by offering devotional space to any of his guests. Ned had a sept built for his wife, perhaps Black Harren's wife kept the the 7 and he built it for her.

[Anath]

Good possibility about Baela and Rhaena.

Could you provide the quote of Ran's hint?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100284-spoilers-the-princess-and-the-queen-complete-spoilers-discussion/page-14

I like to think that most of her disfigurements were not on her face, so she could hide them under her gowns.

[Lord Varys]

The fact that Aegon III's second daughter is another Rhaena could be a sign that Lady Rhaena played an important role in the remainder of the Dance/the ultimate Black victory and/or may be a hint that Rhaena eventually married either Aegon III or Viserys II (thus being either the mother of the children of Aegon III or Viserys II).

Baela does not seem to be injured all that much; she, too, could be either the future wife of Aegon or Viserys.

Speaking about the Regency mess during the reign of Aegon III: My guess is that the first Lord Regent is going to be Corlys Velaryon - he was the one who suggested the Aegon-Jaehaera match, and I think he'll be the guy to see this through. But then he may become one of the first victims of the Winter Fever. He does seem to be quite an old man, and he his stay in the Black Cells during Rhaenyra's reign surely took a toll on him.

Baela and Rhaena are the natural matches for Aegon and Viserys, especially since Targaryen blood needs to be preserved and all that. Could be that Baela ends up as Viserys's wife, and Rhaena with that Corbray for the time being, only be marry Aegon III later in life after Jaehaera has died.

The children of Viserys II and Aegon III all have very distinct Targaryen looks. They seem to have been Targaryen or at least Valyrian on both sides. And I'm pretty sure that no Regent of Aegon III had enough influence to marry one of his daughters to the young king and/or his younger brother.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Speaking of the regents, were they all regent together at the same time (as has been suggested on this thread several times) or were they regent one by one? Since there seem to have been a lot, and not all of them greater lords, but also minor, IIRC.

[dotheknifefight]

Speaking of the regents, were they all regent together at the same time (as has been suggested on this thread several times) or were they regent one by one? Since there seem to have been a lot, and not all of them greater lords, but also minor, IIRC.

I don't know if that's known for sure, but according to the MUSH, these were all regents to Aegon III:

Lord Leowyn Corbray, protector of the Realm (d. 133. winter fever)

Lord Manfryd Mooton (d. 134)

Ser Corwyn Corbray (d. 135, at a parley outside Runestone)

Lord Thaddeus Rowan, also Hand of the King (d. 135)

Lord Torren Manderly, also Hand of the King (d. 139, in his sleep)

There seems to be no information on Corlys Velaryon and whether he was a regent. As Lord Varys pointed out, it was him who suggested a marriage between Aegon III and Jaehaera, so we shouldn't discount this as a possibility. There are no Velaryons on the MUSH (SAD. FACE.) so we can only make this assumption.

Perhaps Alicent Hightower acted as regent as part of this wedding arrangement between Aegon III and Jaehaera. I can't imagine Alicent shipping off from King's Landing and not having an active role.

ATTN: Lord Varys

The fact that Aegon III's second daughter is another Rhaena could be a sign that Lady Rhaena played an important role in the remainder of the Dance/the ultimate Black victory [snip]

A sound call.

[snip] and/or may be a hint that Rhaena eventually married either Aegon III or Viserys II (thus being either the mother of the children of Aegon III or Viserys II).

There has yet to be an instance of a Targaryen daughter being named after their mother, right? And the only time we have seen a son named after their father is Daemon II Blackfyre.

Perhaps it was Baela who married Aegon III and Rhaena who married Viserys II. Or this is the only break from a naming pattern that has spanned 300 years.

It could just be another throwback to the first Rhaena Targaryen, but I find that rather unlikely.

RE: The possible identities of the dragons belonging to deceased family members

At least one dragon died on the Stepstones, from the context clues we get about Daemon's experience there with Ceraxes. It was not Laenor (obviously, as his dragon is alive). This leads me to believe it was Aemon or Baelon fighting along side Daemon. I'm almost certain it was Baelon, as Daemon would have been 12 in 92AC.

[dotheknifefight]

This comment I made seemed not to get any attention so I'll make it again:

According to the MUSH, there is a character named Alysanne Blackwood, or Black Aly, who by the Dance of Dragons would be 17 years old.

Obviously Black Aly indicates some connection to magic or sorcery. We know there are several instances in the world of ASOIAF where Blackwoods are connected to magic.

Are we to believe there are two women in the Riverlands, around the same age, both practicing magic, with basically the same names? Or did this change from the MUSH also?

In the MUSH, Alysanne Blackwood's marriage to Cregan may not have come til much later, as their child isn't born til 140.

Defending the possibility they aren't the same: Perhaps "Black Aly" distinguishes her from Alys Rivers.

[Lord Varys]

On the Regents:

The list we could deduce from the MUSH is most likely incomplete, especially since GRRM's recent post on his NAB indicated that the Regency era of the reign of Aegon III - on which he also wrote a huge historical piece - was indeed a big mess/struggle for power. And it's quite clear that they did not rule the Realm at the same time, but succeeded each other. Of the Lord Regents we know two are confirmed Blacks (Thaddeus Rowan & Torrhen Manderly), a third is a former Black who may switch camp again after Rhaenyra's death (Manfryd Mooton), the fourth and fifth most likely will turn out to be Blacks (Lord Leowyn Corbray and his brother Ser Corwyn Corbray), since the Vale was apparently in Rhaenyra's camp.

The fact that Corwyn's second wife is also supposed to be a Targaryen princess (most likely Lady Rhaena) also suggests that he was a Black. I don't see Rhaena marrying a Green.

It may be that there were also some Greens among the Regents, and that we just don't know them yet, but somehow I doubt that. Ser Otto Hightower is long dead, by the way. He was executed by Rhaenyra after she took the capital. Ser Tyland Lannister served as Hand of the King at one point (before succumbing to the Winter Fever in 134 AC), and it is possible that he was Hand to Aegon III. But I doubt that, my guess is that Aegon II named him Hand after he was restored to the Iron Throne. He would still be in KL most likely, since Rhaenyra gave him to her torturers when last we saw him in TPatQ, and Aegon would need money more than anything after he returned to KL.

Aegon III should turn eleven in 131, which means that the Regency took about five years or so (Aegon III would be able to rule in his own name from the day he turned sixteen in 136 AC). From that we can assume that Lord Torrhen Manderly was Aegon's last Regent since he apparently did not die during the Regency.

Lord Leowyn Corbray would be the first known Regent in my opinion. He died of the Winter Fever in 133 AC. He may have been followed by his brother Ser Corwyn who died at a parley outside Runestone in 135 AC.It may be that said parley had something to do with the Dance (i.e. the Royces may have declared for Aegon II during the war) but that does not need to be the case. Corbray may have been followed by Rowan, who died in the same year of unknown causes, but I don't think that was the case. He is listed in the Baratheon appendix of the MUSH as 'Lord of Goldengrove, once regent and Hand of the King (d. 135)' which may indicate that he resigned as Regent before he died. That could indicate that he served as Regent before the two Corbrays, i.e. some time during the year 131-133. Lord Manfryd Mooton most likely also did not die in office, since his is also listed as 'Lord of Maidenpool, once a regent to King Aegon III (d. 134)'. Thus it's very likely that he did not serve between the two Corbrays but before them.

[dotheknifefight]

I added Lord Leowyn Corbray to the list of regents, as I guess Lord Protector of the Realm qualifies in its title.

I think Lord Torren Manderly was the last Regent, as he as listed as "once regent and Hand of the King, (d. 139)

Can't believe I missed that about Otto. Thanks for pointing that out.

I can't imagine Tyland Lannister continuing his duties as Hand.

What about the comment about Rhaena being named after her mother or aunt?

[childofsummer]

@Iona (don't know why the quote function isn't working for me): Good point. I'll have to stop overthinking this! :)

[Lord Varys]

It seems that during a Regency the Regent also holds the title of Lord Protector, at least a long as the King himself does not yet hold it, or claims it for himself. Joffrey was styled Lord Protector of the Realm after he ascended to the Iron Throne, but Tommen is not. During Joffrey's reign Cersei only served as Queen Regent, but when Tommen took the throne, she became Queen Regent and Protector of the Realm.

Thus it may be that Aegon III took the title of Lord Protector for himself after Lord Leowyn died.

We also know that some monarchs did not take the style of Lord Protector at all. Rhaenyra allowed Prince Daemon to style himself Lord Protector of the Realm, Aegon II lost that title when Aemond served as Prince Regent and Lord Protector, and Daeron II apparently gave that title to his son and heir Baelor some time before his death (perhaps to smooth Baelor's succession, but it may be that Baelor held that title since the Battle on the Redgrass Field - Daeron II himself never was a warrior).

On Tyland:

Well, I guess it may be possible that Tyland served the third Aegon as Hand if he did not serve Aegon II as Hand. It's possible that the compromise/negotiations that ended the Dance resulted in a Black Lord Regent and a Green Hand of the King. But I still think that the first Lord Regent and Hand was Lord Corlys Velaryon. He may have been the one saving the Targaryen dynasty by proposing and enforcing the marriage between Aegon III and Jaehaera. If Aegon II did not die of his wounds (i.e. a natural death), then we have to assume that he met a violate end (i.e. he may have been assassinated or executed - he most certainly was in no shape to die in battle). That would indicated that the Blacks did indeed win the war in the sense that they got successfully rid of Aegon II. This does not mean that the Blacks won the the war militarily, but any Green commanders in the field would have had great difficulty to explain why they would want to continue the war in the name of Queen Jaehaera. If Corlys as a somewhat neutral guy (it may be that Aegon II is going to release him from the black cells if did not escape during the riots) offered a political marriage between King Aegon III and Jaehaera the Greens could not easily refuse that offer.

On Rhaena and Baela:

Well, we do know that the children of Viserys II are older than those of Aegon III (due to the fact that Jaehaera was either barren, never gave birth to a living child, or because her marriage was never consummated), which indicates that Viserys was married early and fathered his first son at a very early age. This makes either Baela or Rhaena a very good candidate since both of them are a few years older than Viserys which in turn would enable them to get pregnant as soon as Viserys is capable of consummating the marriage. My money would be on Baela since Viserys surely was first betrothed to her, and that betrothal would have been made shortly after Aegon's ascension to the Iron Throne. If Rhaena is the one married to Corwyn Corbray then she would only be free to marry anew in 135 AC, and that may indicate that she eventually became the second queen of Aegon III after Jaehaera died. Since Rhaena was originally betrothed to Lucerys we have to assume that her marriage to Ser Corwyn Corbray happened early in the Dance, perhaps while Joffrey was still in the Vale, to bind the Vale more strongly to Rhaenyra's cause. He apparently was a famous warrior and knight, and may have played an important role at Lady Jeyne's court.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It seems that during a Regency the Regent also holds the title of Lord Protector, at least a long as the King himself does not yet hold it, or claims it for himself. Joffrey was styled Lord Protector of the Realm after he ascended to the Iron Throne, but Tommen is not. During Joffrey's reign Cersei only served as Queen Regent, but when Tommen took the throne, she became Queen Regent and Protector of the Realm.

Thus it may be that Aegon III took the title of Lord Protector for himself after Lord Leowyn died.

We also know that some monarchs did not take the style of Lord Protector at all. Rhaenyra allowed Prince Daemon to style himself Lord Protector of the Realm, Aegon II lost that title when Aemond served as Prince Regent and Lord Protector, and Daeron II apparently gave that title to his son and heir Baelor some time before his death (perhaps to smooth Baelor's succession, but it may be that Baelor held that title since the Battle on the Redgrass Field - Daeron II himself never was a warrior).

On Tyland:

Well, I guess it may be possible that Tyland served the third Aegon as Hand if he did not serve Aegon II as Hand. It's possible that the compromise/negotiations that ended the Dance resulted in a Black Lord Regent and a Green Hand of the King. But I still think that the first Lord Regent and Hand was Lord Corlys Velaryon. He may have been the one saving the Targaryen dynasty by proposing and enforcing the marriage between Aegon III and Jaehaera. If Aegon II did not die of his wounds (i.e. a natural death), then we have to assume that he met a violate end (i.e. he may have been assassinated or executed - he most certainly was in no shape to die in battle). That would indicated that the Blacks did indeed win the war in the sense that they got successfully rid of Aegon II. This does not mean that the Blacks won the the war militarily, but any Green commanders in the field would have had great difficulty to explain why they would want to continue the war in the name of Queen Jaehaera. If Corlys as a somewhat neutral guy (it may be that Aegon II is going to release him from the black cells if did not escape during the riots) offered a political marriage between King Aegon III and Jaehaera the Greens could not easily refuse that offer.

On Rhaena and Baela:

Well, we do know that the children of Viserys II are older than those of Aegon III (due to the fact that Jaehaera was either barren, never gave birth to a living child, or because her marriage was never consummated), which indicates that Viserys was married early and fathered his first son at a very early age. This makes either Baela or Rhaena a very good candidate since both of them are a few years older than Viserys which in turn would enable them to get pregnant as soon as Viserys is capable of consummating the marriage. My money would be on Baela since Viserys surely was first betrothed to her, and that betrothal would have been made shortly after Aegon's ascension to the Iron Throne. If Rhaena is the one married to Corwyn Corbray then she would only be free to marry anew in 135 AC, and that may indicate that she eventually became the second queen of Aegon III after Jaehaera died. Since Rhaena was originally betrothed to Lucerys we have to assume that her marriage to Ser Corwyn Corbray happened early in the Dance, perhaps while Joffrey was still in the Vale, to bind the Vale more strongly to Rhaenyra's cause. He apparently was a famous warrior and knight, and may have played an important role at Lady Jeyne's court.

Rhaena and Corbray also could have married shortly after the Dance, though during is just as much possible.

With Rhaena married to a Corbray and Aegon to Jaehaera, only Baela is left amongst the women. I calculated that Aegon IV was born around 138 AC, which would have made Viserys 16 years old. The link is in my signature. Of course, Aegon IV could also have been born a year or two before. That's why it's only an estimation.

Baela, at such a point in time, would be around 22 years old or younger a bit, if they indeed married and Aegon IV was born before. It's possible.

[Grievous]

Re: Lord Protector of the Realm

It sounds like the title could have emerged during Aenys I's reign, when Maegor took care of business: rebellions and the like.