Could Robb have married Margery?

[CosimaistheHottest]

I wonder if the Tyrells ever tried to talk to Robert about marrying Joffrey to Margarey before Robert decided on the Sansa betrothal. It would be much easier than going to war and hoping you win on a younger brother's trumped up claim.

[Lord Damian]

Margeary to Edmure would be the better match. Not as cold as Highgarden and she could have ruled the Riverlands wisely as she is her grandmothers's grandchild. The Tyrells would be stong enough to help the Tully's in the Riverlands. Thus, isolating Tywin.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think the Tyrells were always "Iron Throne or bust." They weren't going to settle for just the North and the Riverlands (and the Reach).

[Lee-Sensei]

Didn't Mace want her to be a Queen? I don't think this would work unless Robb tried to claim the IT.

[The Dragon King]

I think the Tyrells were always "Iron Throne or bust." They weren't going to settle for just the North and the Riverlands (and the Reach).

The Tyrells are very competent and also very patient, they'd take the best opportunity that was there, they don't risk "bust".

[The Dragon King]

Margeary to Edmure would be the better match. Not as cold as Highgarden and she could have ruled the Riverlands wisely as she is her grandmothers's grandchild. The Tyrells would be stong enough to help the Tully's in the Riverlands. Thus, isolating Tywin.

Great idea! Margary would easily take control of the Riverlands and a marriage of Willas to Sansa would form an alliance with the North, a very potent combination.

[Winnief]

Lord Damian, on 16 Feb 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

Great idea! Margary would easily take control of the Riverlands and a marriage of Willas to Sansa would form an alliance with the North, a very potent combination.

Good point. In retrospect even Robb, realized it would have been better to trade Jaime for Sansa-because one thing, Robb didn't fully realize was how useful a bargaining chip Sansa's hand in marriage could be. (Robb bless him, never did understand politics the way he did battles.)

While conversely, leaving Sansa in Lannister hands would always open up the door to the Lannister's trying to fast track a forced marriage, to create a Lannister-Stark heir to steal the North with-which of course is exactly what they did.

On another level, too, I think Sansa might have been pretty happy at Highgarden, and Willas sounds like an ok guy, to boot. Everyone would have won.

[Draco_Dracul]

I think the Tyrells were always "Iron Throne or bust." They weren't going to settle for just the North and the Riverlands (and the Reach).

I think they might have in a scenario where Stannis took King's Landing and Robb didn't marry Jeyne.

[Lee-Sensei]

Good point. In retrospect even Robb, realized it would have been better to trade Jaime for Sansa-because one thing, Robb didn't fully realize was how useful a bargaining chip Sansa's hand in marriage could be. (Robb bless him, never did understand politics the way he did battles.)

While conversely, leaving Sansa in Lannister hands would always open up the door to the Lannister's trying to fast track a forced marriage, to create a Lannister-Stark heir to steal the North with-which of course is exactly what they did.

On another level, too, I think Sansa might have been pretty happy at Highgarden, and Willas sounds like an ok guy, to boot. Everyone would have won.

Who would he have Sansa marry?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Who would he have Sansa marry?

Either a Tyrell, provided Robb decided to do so before Margaery was married to Joffrey, but possibly while she was married to Renly (Renly seemed willing to side with Robb against the Lannisters).

After the Tyrell-Lannister Union, he could have gone to House Martell (Quentyn or Oberyn), or House Arryn (Sweetrobin). The Hightowers would also have been a possibility (Humfrey and Garth, although both much older than Sansa, are not known to be married).

Of course, that would be if Robb wanted to make Sansa a political pion. He could have wanted to keep her close, and married her to a son of a bannerman (Manderly, Karstark, etc.) Anyone with a son of similar age.

[Lee-Sensei]

Either a Tyrell, provided Robb decided to do so before Margaery was married to Joffrey, but possibly while she was married to Renly (Renly seemed willing to side with Robb against the Lannisters).

After the Tyrell-Lannister Union, he could have gone to House Martell (Quentyn or Oberyn), or House Arryn (Sweetrobin). The Hightowers would also have been a possibility (Humfrey and Garth, although both much older than Sansa, are not known to be married).

Of course, that would be if Robb wanted to make Sansa a political pion. He could have wanted to keep her close, and married her to a son of a bannerman (Manderly, Karstark, etc.) Anyone with a son of similar age.

That's the thing though. The Tyrells aren't going to join the Starks unless they're going for the IT and even then it's iffy. The Martells are reserved for the Targaryens and a marriage alliance isn't going to bring the Arryns in on their side since the're already family and staying neutral. The Greyjoys obviously aren't going t go for it and the Baratheon alliance already fell through. I don't think their were any real options.

[KingOfTheDirewolves]

If Robb was going to go for the Iron Throne it would have been a fantastic match. They would get the most populous region in the Kingdoms joining them which would swing the momentum in their direction, at that point the Vae and Dorne might jump in to try to get some of the spoils.

The Tyrells would love it because it would make Margary the Queen, and she could likely manipulate te living hell out of Robb and it would drastically strenghten the Tyrell bloodline with Sansa marrying Willas.

Don't Dorne and the Reach hate eachother?

[briantw]

The key here is that Robb isn't really interested in the Iron Throne itself. His purpose is revenge against the Lannisters and removing them from power. If he were a smart politician (he clearly wasn't), he would have offered the Tyrells the Iron Throne when the war was over with the condition that they respect the Northern/Riverlands independence, on the condition that they help him destroy the Lannisters. He could even offer up Sansa to marry Mace's oldest son and either marry Margaery himself or set her up with one of his more prominent bannermen, such as Edmure Tully. The latter would allow him to honor his contract with the Freys.

In that scenario, basically everyone wins.

Alternatively, once Robb found out the truth about Joffrey's father, he could have (and should have) pledged to fight with Stannis and relinquished his crown. It's less badass, sure, but it's what his father would have done, and combining Stannis' post-Storm's End forces with his own, one has to think they would have won the war.

But alas...Robb was a moron.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Mace wanted to be Queen’s father and by Queen it means the Seven Kingdoms’ Queen not the Queen of a vast, infertile and poor region.

[Roddy the Ruin]

You wanna know why they didn't marry

Cuz with that Robb would have won and GRRM wouldn't have the chance to murder his readers innocence

[Mad Monkey]

The key here is that Robb isn't really interested in the Iron Throne itself. His purpose is revenge against the Lannisters and removing them from power.

Where does he say that? I don't remember Robb expressing a strong opinion on the Lannisters' claim to the Iron Throne. It seems to me that what he wanted was to separate the North ad the Riverlands from the Iron Throne's rule. He didn't care who sat on the Iron Throne -- Renly, Joffrey, Stannis -- he just wanted the North to be independent.

If he were a smart politician (he clearly wasn't), he would have offered the Tyrells the Iron Throne when the war was over with the condition that they respect the Northern/Riverlands independence, on the condition that they help him destroy the Lannisters. He could even offer up Sansa to marry Mace's oldest son and either marry Margaery himself or set her up with one of his more prominent bannermen, such as Edmure Tully. The latter would allow him to honor his contract with the Freys.

Why would the Tyrells take this deal instead of the Lannister deal? Instead of ruling over the whole kingdom, they would instead get maybe half of it -- less, even, since this deal would basically sever the Vale as well, since they would be surrounded on all sides by a foreign nation. They would have the same reaction that Renly and Balon had to Robb's offer, "You want me to kill all your enemies for you in exchange for a crown that I can just take with or without you?"

The Tyrells would basically be doing all the work in a Stark/Tyrell alliance to seize the Iron Throne, and instead of one decisive battle at the Blackwater they would have had to wage war against the Lannisters and Stannis and possibly Dorne as well.

Alternatively, once Robb found out the truth about Joffrey's father, he could have (and should have) pledged to fight with Stannis and relinquished his crown. It's less badass, sure, but it's what his father would have done, and combining Stannis' post-Storm's End forces with his own, one has to think they would have won the war.

But alas...Robb was a moron.

This is a much better idea, and while I'm not confident that it would have been enough to win the war. Were the Starks and Stannis's army even close to each other?

[Buried Treasure]

Where does he say that? I don't remember Robb expressing a strong opinion on the Lannisters' claim to the Iron Throne. It seems to me that what he wanted was to separate the North ad the Riverlands from the Iron Throne's rule. He didn't care who sat on the Iron Throne -- Renly, Joffrey, Stannis -- he just wanted the North to be independent.

The only time Robb expessed a strong opinion on Joff's claim to the throne was when he said Joff was rightful king as the trueborn son of Robert. But he strongly stated his desire to kill Joff, which certainly counts as wanting to remove him from power. Robb's only objection to Tommen or Myrcella did seem to be that they would only get to rule if he had killed Joffrey, so he would have already made enemies of them.

Were the Starks and Stannis's army even close to each other?

No.

The reason we never hear Robb's opinion on Stannis' claim and what Robb would think about setting aside his crown to kneel to Stannis is because by the time Robb learns if all that it is an irrelevancy.

Robb was already campaigning in the West when Stannis letter could have reached him. Robb was already benefiting Stannis by distracting Tywin and trying to coordinate marching armies across a continent would have achieved little.

Then Robb's priority changed to marching home after Winterfell fell. It did not matter if he was a king or Lord, he needed to go North. If he been pledged to Stannis he would have at that point abandoned his kings cause to defend his home.

[The Lady Leela]

You wanna know why they didn't marry

Cuz with that Robb would have won and GRRM wouldn't have the chance to murder his readers innocence

Yeah, this. Pretty much.

Robb marrying Margaery would've been the perfect move, politically and maybe even sentimentally as well. In fact, both Catelyn and Tywin acknowledge this in ASoS.

The problem is, Robb/Margaery is a happy ending, and GRR doesn't do happy endings.

The solution, there's always fanfic.

[The Dragon King]

Don't Dorne and the Reach hate eachother?

Yes, but they have similar interests in that situation, the Tyrells are all in for the IT and the Martells want revenge for Elia and her kids. Also, the more it looks like one side is assured victory the more that non-participants feel the need to join in and secure their piece of the new power structure.

So, IMO they'd temporarily put their differences aside.

[Ser Onaventea Helms]

why wouldn't robb go for the iron throne?

he basically became king of the north because some lords were shouting for it; if mace and all the southron lords had insisted he'd probably gone for the iron throne

I wouldn't say that would be reason enough to get the Iron Throne. Robb honestly didn't want the Iron Throne, he just wanted the North to be free of the South's ruling.