[tPaTQ Spoilers] New possibility for the origin of Dany's dragons

[joluoto2]

There has been many theories about the origin of the Dragoneggs Dany get from Illyrio. Theories that they are from Valyria or that there are dragons or at least eggs in Asshai exist, and they are certainly still possibilities. However I feel that the Princess and the Queen gives a new possible origin of the eggs. We have one dragon unaccounted for after the Dance. Nettles disappear on Sheepstealer. So there's certainly a possibility that the eggs are Sheepstealer's. Still there are problems with this theory. It seems Sheepstealer is referred to as male. If this is true the theory won't work at all. Another problem is of course that if Sheepstealer was female, which dragon would be the father? It could be Caraxes of course, but a case could be made for most of the "black" dragons Sheepstealer came in contact with.

Of course as already mentioned if the records of Sheepstealer being made are true, this theory is not working at all. Still we have a new possible origin of Dany's dragons, as well as a mystery of what ever happened to Nettles and Sheepstealer.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think Dany's eggs are from Asshai, and Quaithe probably found a way for it to get to Illyrio.

She begins contacting Dany before the eggs are hatched meaning she probably played a role in how they got to Dany.

[Nictarion]

I think Dany's eggs are from Asshai, and Quaithe probably found a way for it to get to Illyrio.

She begins contacting Dany before the eggs are hatched meaning she probably played a role in how they got to Dany.

When did Quaithe contact Dany in AGoT?

[Madi]

Sheepstealer may be a female, because as first dragon-rider had a girl/woman. So this dragon could lay some eggs for example near Pentos or Sorrows.

Or Illyrio had dragon eggs because of Rhaena's heritage (there are mention three eggs with her).

Or Varys found some dragon eggs in Kings Landing (around 209 are described also some eggs according D&E) and gave Illyrio.

As I see it, possibility that Illyrio had them from Asshai is less after reading tPatQ.

[Iona]

Illyrio does mention the origin of the eggs in AGOT:

“Dragon’s eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai,” said Magister Illyrio. “The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty.”

[Madi]

Illyrio does mention the origin of the eggs in AGOT

Illyrio is a liar. It is known. :)

[Ser Leftwich]

I think Dany's eggs are from Asshai, and Quaithe probably found a way for it to get to Illyrio.

She begins contacting Dany before the eggs are hatched meaning she probably played a role in how they got to Dany.

Could you elaborate on this? Can't think of any basis for it.

[Iona]

Could you elaborate on this? Can't think of any basis for it.

The first thing that came to my mind was that if Quaithe really has a glass candle (seems quite certain to me) then she can meddle with people's dreams.

[Iona]

Illyrio is a liar. It is known. :)

Someone needed to be the spoilsport... :P

[franko99]

Sheepstealer may be a female, because as first dragon-rider had a girl/woman. So this dragon could lay some eggs for example near Pentos or Sorrows.

Or Illyrio had dragon eggs because of Rhaena's heritage (there are mention three eggs with her).

Or Varys found some dragon eggs in Kings Landing (around 209 are described also some eggs according D&E) and gave Illyrio.

As I see it, possibility that Illyrio had them from Asshai is less after reading tPatQ.

I think this are Rhaena's but there isn't much evidence to back it up

Illyrio does mention the origin of the eggs in AGOT:

“Dragon’s eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai,” said Magister Illyrio. “The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty.”

You shouldn't trust anything Illiryo says, it is known

[Iona]

I think this are Rhaena's but there isn't much evidence to back it up

You shouldn't trust anything Illiryo says, it is known

Why would he lie about the eggs? It's not like he expected them to hatch. ;)

[MoIaF]

When did Quaithe contact Dany in AGoT?

Dany fevered dream in AGOT:

She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. “... the dragon..." And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.

Then her vision of Quaithe in ADWD:

"Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman's voice. "The dragons know. Do you?"

There similarities in description might suggest that Quaithe influenced Dany's dream.

[Madi]

Why would he lie about the eggs? It's not like he expected them to hatch. ;)

People usually lie because they want to look and sound more important. I think in his mind his gift need to be even more splendid, so Illyrio couldn't just tell that these eggs were stolen from KL or found in Pentos etc. Saying that he specially ordered/brought them from Shadow Lands beyond Asshai could be just part of his created image. ^_^

[Stannis-the-Mannis]

Didn't GRRM say their births were "miracles"?

I tend to think their birth is more symbolic. They hatch when Dany burns MMD for the crime of basically telling her the truth: Drogo was a monster, their son would have been a monster too, the act of saving MMD was no kindness at all on Dany's part, etc. It was a classic Targaryen move on Dany's part, her first real "fire and blood" moment.

Edit: I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE!!!

[Iona]

Didn't GRRM say their births were "miracles"?

I tend to think their birth is more symbolic. They hatch when Dany burns MMD for the crime of basically telling her the truth: Drogo was a monster, their son would have been a monster too, the act of saving MMD was no kindness at all on Dany's part, etc. It was a classic Targaryen move on Dany's part, her first real "fire and blood" moment.

You might want to read the OP... ;)

[Nictarion]

Dany fevered dream in AGOT:

She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. “... the dragon..." And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.

Then her vision of Quaithe in ADWD:

"Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman's voice. "The dragons know. Do you?"

There similarities in description might suggest that Quaithe influenced Dany's dream.

Vey interesting, thanks for the quotes. I remember the ADwD one, but I never realized Quaithe may have contacted Dany in AGoT through her dream.

[Parwan]

...

You shouldn't trust anything Illiryo says, it is known

Many people in ASoIaF are less than fully truthful. I don't think that Illyrio stands out as far less trustworthy than the average fellow looking for an advantage in the story. And just about everyone with any power is looking for an advantage of some sot or other.

The Pentosi merchant tells the truth and gives good advice in a number of instances. There are lots of examples. He says that Dany is old enough for the khal. He advises Viserys to stay in Pentos. He gives Tyrion an accurate view of events in Essos, tells him that Stannis is at the Wall, analyzes the situation with Myrcella and Dorne correctly (Tyrion sees this)…In all, we have the testimony of a man who seems trustworthy enough, at least in straightforward statements which will not directly disadvantage him. He says the eggs came from the Shadow Lands. We have no testimony at all that contradicts this assertion.

Why would he lie about the eggs? It's not like he expected them to hatch. ;)

I don't think he has any motivation to lie.

1. People usually lie because they want to look and sound more important. 2. I think in his mind his gift need to be even more splendid, so Illyrio couldn't just tell that these eggs were stolen from KL or found in Pentos etc. 3. Saying that he specially ordered/brought them from Shadow Lands beyond Asshai could be just part of his created image. ^_^

1. I'd say that this is, at best, an inadequate view of why people usually lie. There are lots of motivations.

2. This is just speculation on your part.

3. He doesn't say that he specially ordered/brought them. He just says they are from the Shadow Lands and that the eons have turned them to stone. I don't see why he couldn't have built up his gift by saying that these are Targaryen eggs. Who else has such eggs? If they have even a small chance of hatching, then they would seem to be more valuable than the fossils that he says they are.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Why would he lie about the eggs? It's not like he expected them to hatch. ;)

Because stating "these are the eggs my good friend Varys stole out of your father's stash in KL" could lead to unfortunate conclusions.

[Ahura Mazda]

Because stating "these are the eggs my good friend Varys stole out of your father's stash in KL" could lead to unfortunate conclusions.

Only that there aren't proves that ever happened at all.

Even pathological liars may tell the truth once in a while, and he has not be proven to be one. What's the proof that a really rich merchant like him didn't get the eggs from asshai? or the clue?

[Winter's Knight]

If they were Targ eggs, he'd have said so I think.

"As a contribution to your attempt to reclaim your father's rights, I gift you your families greatest treasures" or something.