[tPaTQ Spoilers] New possibility for the origin of Dany's dragons

[TheCrannogDweller]

From tPatQ it appears that almost all female dragons were ridden for the first time by a female dragon rider. The only odd one out is Tessarion the Blue Queen, which seems to have been ridden for the first time by Daeron the Darring.

So, Drogon is a girl?

[Arya kiddin']

So, Drogon is a girl?

Doesn't Aemon mention it in ASoS that dragons are neither male nor female?

[Petite Psycophant]

So far none of the other eggs mentioned have the same marking's as Dany's eggs. So most likely Dany's eggs didn't come from KL, DS or anywhere in Westeros. This goes for D&E tales and TPatQ.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Doesn't Aemon mention it in ASoS that dragons are neither male nor female?

I remember something like this, but I think he was talking about the word "prince" in high valyrian.

I don't think that dragons have genders in the traditional sense of the word. Maybe they are hermaphrodites.

Edit: That being said, there are several instances in TPATQ where specific dragons are referred to as "she", "she-dragon" or "queen".

[Arya kiddin']

I remember something like this, but I think he was talking about the word "prince" in high valyrian.

I don't think that dragons have genders in the traditional sense of the word. Maybe they are hermaphrodites.

Edit: That being said, there are several instances in TPATQ where specific dragons are referred to as "she", "she-dragon" or "queen".

I believe all dragons in TPaTQ are mentioned as she, but I'm not sure.

[Nictarion]

So far none of the other eggs mentioned have the same marking's as Dany's eggs. So most likely Dany's eggs didn't come from KL, DS or anywhere in Westeros. This goes for D&E tales and TPatQ.

I'd rather it be true they are from Asshai. More mysterious that way. I doubt we ever learn the truth of how Illyrio got them.

[Iona]

I believe all dragons in TPaTQ are mentioned as she, but I'm not sure.

I dreamt for a while that Grey Ghost might have hidden some eggs somewhere, but damn, he's was not female.

[TheCrannogDweller]

I believe all dragons in TPaTQ are mentioned as she, but I'm not sure.

Not all of them. A lot of them are referred to as "he" - Sunfyre, Caraxes, Arrax, Stormcloud...

[Arya kiddin']

I dreamt for a while that Grey Ghost might have hidden some eggs somewhere, but damn, he's was not female.

Not all of them. A lot of them are referred to as "he" - Sunfyre, Caraxes, Arrax, Stormcloud...

Oh, yes. Thanks. I have read it just once and don't remember all the specifics. :)

[TheCrannogDweller]

All three of the wild dragons are supposedly male:

Sheepstealer, a notably ugly “mud brown” dragon hatched when the Old King was still young, had a taste for mutton, swooping down on shepherd’s flocks from Driftmark to the Wendwater. He seldom harmed the shepherds, unless they attempted to interfere with him, but had been known to devour the occasional sheepdog.

Grey Ghost dwelt in a smoking vent high on the eastern side of the Dragonmont, preferred fish, and was most oft glimpsed flying low over the narrow sea, snatching prey from the waters. A pale grey-white beast the color of morning mist, he was a notably shy dragon who avoided men and their works for years at a time.

The largest and oldest of the wild dragons was the Cannibal, so named because he had been known to feed on the carcasses of dead dragons, and descend upon the hatcheries of Dragonstone to gorge himself on newborn hatchlings and eggs.

[Arya kiddin']

All three of the wild dragons are supposedly male:

Good to know that. :idea:

[joluoto2]

Yeah, tPatQ put a dig hole in the theory that there is something funky about dragon and gender, since we certainly have dragons referred to as males and females.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Yeah, tPatQ put a dig hole in the theory that there is something funky about dragon and gender, since we certainly have dragons referred to as males and females.

Just because a Maester refers to them as males and females, doesn't necessarily mean that this is all about them. For one thing, all of Dany's dragons are supposedly male. And Aemon, who I'd say knows more about dragons than some random archmaester from the Citadel, clearly says that they are neither male nor female. So, there is a chance that they are hermaphrodites or can choose what gender to be. There are real life-animals who can biologically swap their gender.

[MoIaF]

:o

Thanks Maester. :blushing: :blushing:

And the notion that dragons and direwolves can be on the same side is very interesting. :idea:

(This was mentioned on a different thread) In Maestre Cressen's prologue in ACOK he is standing in Dragonstone in between the Hound and the Wyvern, both of the anymals are standing guard. IMO the hound represents the direwolf and the wyvern represents the dragon. Both anymals are not opposing each other but standing side by side. I think that GRRM was trying to draw a connection between them.

[Arya kiddin']

(This was mentioned on a different thread) In Maestre Cressen's prologue in ACOK he is standing in Dragonstone in between the Hound and the Wyvern, both of the anymals are standing guard. IMO the hound represents the direwolf and the wyvern represents the dragon. Both anymals are not opposing each other but standing side by side. I think that GRRM was trying to draw a connection between them.

Yes I've heard of that connection before. While a dragon parallels the wyvern pretty well, I'm not sure we can relate hellhound and direwolf just as easily though.

[Veltigar]

I don't see any indication that Daeron was it's first rider, only that Tessarion was a "young dragon," but definitely "of fighting size" unlike the younger Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Stormcloud, and Moondancer (and the hatchlings who died in the Dragonpit.) Note that Sunfyre is described as "young" as well, but it's clearly not as young as the five I just listed.

Reread my post (notice the bolded part):

From tPatQ it appears that almost all female dragons were ridden for the first time by a female dragon rider. The only odd one out is Tessarion the Blue Queen, which seems to have been ridden for the first time by Daeron the Darring.

[MoIaF]

Yes I've heard of that connection before. While a dragon parallels the wyvern pretty well, I'm not sure we can relate hellhound and direwolf just as easily though.

Yes, I do concede that it’s a bit of a stretch in that they are not mythological linked (although they’re both canine-like animals). :)

However, I do think those two statues were described together for a reason.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Reread my post (notice the bolded part):

It's not only Tessarion. What about Drogon? Is he a female, or is Dany somehow a man?

And what about Vhagar? She was 50 during the conquest. How do you know that Visenya was her first rider?

Also, as I pointed out in the previous post, Sheepstealer is clearly referred to as a "he".

[Lost Melnibonean]

(This was mentioned on a different thread) In Maestre Cressen's prologue in ACOK he is standing in Dragonstone in between the Hound and the Wyvern, both of the anymals are standing guard. IMO the hound represents the direwolf and the wyvern represents the dragon. Both anymals are not opposing each other but standing side by side. I think that GRRM was trying to draw a connection between them.

Jon?

[jet199]

If the R'hllorists in Asshai are all waiting for AAR then they might have a reasonable stash of dragon eggs for him when he turns up. They might even send a few out if a priest sees dragons hatching in their fires. The more souls delivered to the lord of light the better.