Dunk and Egg and Sansa Theory

[Annara Snow]

I've just read a new theory about Dunk and Egg that I thought you might be interested in. Sorry if it's been discussed before.

At the Ashford Tourney in The Hedge Knight, the fair maid's champions are:

• Lyonel Baratheon

Leo Tyrell

Tybolt Lannister

Humphrey Hardyng

Valarr Targaryen

Which correspond with all of Sansa's love interests, with the exception of the Targaryan. Is that a clue that Sansa and Aegon are going to get together?

"Love interests"? Someone you're forced to marry/arranged to marry =/= love interest. And if that were what the list is about, where is an Arryn? Lysa wanted her to marry Sweetrobin.

I don't see what people mentioned in Dunk & Egg have to do with what a character who has nothing to do with Dunk & Egg has been arranged to marry or will be arranged to marry 100 years later. It's just a bunch of familiar last names because there are only so many great houses in the realm.

[NotSoSilentSister]

But if they are advertising him as the son f Rhaegar, he is part Martell, his mother is Elia Martell. So it would again just prove that he is indeed fake and even Dorne is doubting him, if they want to make Arianne marry him. Since in that case they obviously don't believe he is part Martell.

That does not necessarily follow. Cousin marriages are popular in all types of feudal systems for all kinds of pragmatic reasons; they generally are not read as lack of belief in already existing blood ties. Tywin marrying his cousin or Targs marrying Targs doesn't mean that any of the involved party's legitimacy is questionable either

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Not necessarily, or at least not according to this pattern. Just because he might not be the Targ to court Sansa, doesn't automatically mean he's no Targ at all.

I think he's fake too, but I was trying to ask if his marriage to Arianne would cast doubt on his legitimacy in-universe. In the first Dance, Hightower supported Aegon II because he was obviously half Hightower(and because they started the damn thing). Young Griff can't even win Dornish support without marrying Arianne, despite being Elia's son(at least he thinks he is).

[ARYa_Nym]

But if they are advertising him as the son f Rhaegar, he is part Martell, his mother is Elia Martell. So it would again just prove that he is indeed fake and even Dorne is doubting him, if they want to make Arianne marry him. Since in that case they obviously don't believe he is part Martell.

They don't automatically believe based on the spoiler chapters. Only someone gullible who wants to believe will automatically believe.

I've said that Aegon is arrogant enough to entertain the second wife thing but I don't think that will pan out. Sansa isn't guaranteed to be a better match for Aegon either. The North is a mess and isn't guaranteed to back her if they want to stay independent. The Riverlands are also a mess and don't like LF. She doesn't have claim to the Vale. She needs to keep SR alive. It seems like Harry won't stay alive for her to use him.

Looking at the Sandsnakes, I didn't get the impression that their desire for vengeance is satisfied....

Doran's endgame might be the Targ alliance, but who says Doran would be the one calling the shots when the chips are down? He's old and in ill health. He might drop dead any minute.

Like I said if he dies Arianne may want to do it even more because it will be his dying wish. & I also said Arianne has shown signs of wanting it herself based on the spoiler chapters.

I didn't say that their vengeance was satisfied. It just isn't as fulfilling at this stage. But yes we know they will ally with him not Dany.

[Silverin]

They don't automatically believe based on the spoiler chapters. Only someone gullible who wants to believe will automatically believe.

I never said Dorne would believe that he is real.

I said if the only way they support him if he marries Arianne they prove that they don't believe in his legitimacy for all the other houses.

After all Aegon is supposed to be related to them. If not even them are willing to back him without marriage why would other houses risk it?

As I said Aegon needs more alliances that he can secure with just marraige.

[Annara Snow]

All of those relationships ended in failure. Joffrey discarded her to marry someone else. Tyrell never happened. They dropped her and let her take the fall for murder. Tyrion was a failure from the jump. Harry can be a failure too and so can Aegon.

I can see Aegon being like the first. There's talk but he marries someone else (Arianne).

I would say that the Joffrey relationship was a "failure" not because he "discarded her to marry someone else" but much before that, when he chopped her father's head off and she started to hate his guts and he kept abusing her.

You're right it could be that these are all failed marriages, and that she'll find someone else after that. Although I suspect that she'll fall head over heels in love with Aegon only to see him be tragically killed.

Eh, I really can't see that for multiple reasons.

IDK. I'd like to think that by the time Aegon is accepted by the realm as a possible political avenue that Sansa would have grown not to just like pretty boys and show some caution when it comes to men, instead of just marrying a 'charming prince' like she thought with Joffrey.

She already has. Have you read her AFFC chapters?

- She doesn't want to get married at all because she thinks everyone wants to marry her for her claim

- Dislikes handsome men that she finds immediately untrustworthy (Lynn Corbrey) and is completely unimpressed by what she knows about Harry the Heir - the primary thing that sticks in her mind being the fact that he has already fathered two bastards, rather than his reputed good looks and knighthood

- Has romantic/erotic fantasies about a disfigured lowborn non-knight

- appreciates the comely and lowborn but honest and strong Lothor Brune and 'ships' him with Mya Stone.

[jet199]

I think the maid or lady of the house starts off crowned as the Queen of love and beauty and then her title of defended. At the Ashford tourney no one else was crowned so the maid retained her title. I guess this hints that Sansa gain what ever power or position she ends up with in her own right and not though marriage.

[ARYa_Nym]

I never said Dorne would believe that he is real.

I said if the only way they support him if he marries Arianne they prove that they don't believe in his legitimacy for all the other houses.

After all Aegon is supposed to be related to them. If not even them are willing to back him without marriage why would other houses risk it?

Not really. It's typical Targ behavior for him to marry his relatives.

Proving his legitimacy isn't their job. That's his. He might not even need to prove it them. They might decide they don't care like the Tyrells didn't care about Joffrey. They want marriage. The rest of Westeros will see a Targ when they look at him and a better alternative to the horrible Lannisters.

I think his legitimacy will always be in question but that doesn't mean he won't be king. Joffrey's secret was out but it didn't matter because of where the power resided. It's going to become a problem when Dany shows up though.

[Silverin]

I think the maid or lady of the house starts off crowned as the Queen of love and beauty and then her title of defended. At the Ashford tourney no one else was crowned so the maid retained her title. I guess this hints that Sansa gain what ever power or position she ends up with in her own right and not though marriage.

That would be awesome.

Btw, as the bastard of Lf, if LF "acidentally" dies does she, Alayne inherit his money? She would be one rich bastard in that scenario. She could even pay up certain debts, certain character have towards the Iron Bank.

Not really. It's typical Targ behavior for him to marry his relatives.

Proving his legitimacy isn't their job. That's his. He might not even need to prove it them. They might decide they don't care like the Tyrells didn't care about Joffrey. They want marriage. The rest of Westeros will see a Targ when they look at him and a better alternative to the horrible Lannisters.

I think his legitimacy will always be in question but that doesn't mean he won't be king. Joffrey's secret was out but it didn't matter because of where the power resided. It's going to become a problem when Dany shows up though.

I think you just miss my point constantly. If Aegon will be on the Throne, he will need alliances who bakc him without marriage. He cannot marry everybody. And out of all the houses Dorne has the most reason to back him without marriage.

They already question Dany's sanity, they can hear she got married to Hizdar, that Quentyn died. But the thing is right now in Meereen Dany is disappeared, and is rumored to be dead.

And even without marraige he can give them important postions, like for example the Hand position.

EDIT: Right now Aegon still thinks he will marry Dany when she arrieves. And she with her three dragon and solders worth more than Arienne.

If they hear the rumors about Dany's marraieg and disappearance, then that would mean to them that she won't come. n that case, while the marriage would be open up for Aegon again, but then since Dorne doesn't have anyone else to back if they want to take down the Lannister, Aegon might be able to get the alliance without marriage anyway.

[dame]

I think the maid or lady of the house starts off crowned as the Queen of love and beauty and then her title of defended. At the Ashford tourney no one else was crowned so the maid retained her title. I guess this hints that Sansa gain what ever power or position she ends up with in her own right and not though marriage.

I am not really sure the tale is liked to Sansa story, but that would be great. Truth be told I don't see Sansa getting married on screen and certenly not an arranged marriage .

[NotSoSilentSister]

I think he's fake too, but I was trying to ask if his marriage to Arianne would cast doubt on his legitimacy in-universe. In the first Dance, Hightower supported Aegon II because he was obviously half Hightower(and because they started the damn thing). Young Griff can't even win Dornish support without marrying Arianne, despite being Elia's son(at least he thinks he is).

That makes a lot more sense, thanks for the clarification. Still, as I said, there are lot of pragmatic reasons for cousin marriages in a feudal system other than strengthening questionable legitimacy. On the contrary, if the Dornish really thought that Aegon's claim was questionable, they would hardly tie in their lot with him, wouldn't they? That's the whole point of Arianne's mission - to snuff out if he's legit and abort if there's doubt.

[ARYa_Nym]

I think you just miss my point constantly. If Aegon will be on the Throne, he will need alliances who bakc him without marriage. He cannot marry everybody. And out of all the houses Dorne has the most reason to back him without marriage.

They already question Dany's sanity, they can hear she got married to Hizdar, that Quentyn died. But the thing is right now in Meereen Dany is disappeared, and is rumored to be dead.

And even without marraige he can give them important postions, like for example the Hand position.

It's an assumption that they will back him without marriage though. They can refuse.

Arianne questions Dany because she's jealous of Quentyn and wants to one up him.

Other positions don't matter if it's not the one Arianne or Doran wants.

[Silverin]

Other positions don't matter if it's not the one Arianne or Doran wants.

What Doran wants won't matter.

He gave the decision into the hands of Arianne. If Arienne sends back a letter saying Aegon is a dragon Dorne will back him.

[ARYa_Nym]

What Doran wants won't matter.

He gave the decision into the hands of Arianne. If Arienne sends back a letter saying Aegon is a dragon Dorne will back him.

There are already signs that Doran and Arianne want the same thing.

Plus, she's been unmarried for so long and is eager.

[ARYa_Nym]

Let's think about this has Dorne seemed willing to support Targs without marriage?

Viserys and Dany were beggars on the street. Doran never sent them any aid or gave them hint that he knew they were alive unless the subject of marriage came up. Quentyn wasn't going to give her support free.

[Fire Eater]

Another possibility, and iirc, Fire Eater mentioned this a while back, is that "the moment when all the smiles died" could foreshadow (f)Aegon, a dragon prince, winning the greatest tourney of them all – aka, the game of the thrones – and crowning a Sansa, a wolf maid, as his queen (of love and beauty). Rhaegar bypassing Elia could even be a stand in for (f)Aegon choosing Sansa over the Dornish Arianne, which is what everybody seems to expect. Just as they expected Rhaegar to crown Elia.

Actually no, I think the Rhaegar parallel to Sansa's Lyanna is Sandor.

As to the OP, I think there is a possible connection there. I think Harry will die given the spoiled boy will learn a fatal lesson from the school of hard knocks.

I think it could refer to the different houses Sansa is trying to be tied to, and I think in the end she will be tied to House Targaryen by virtue of her cousin, Jon, not that I think they will marry.

[Northernmonkey]

"Love interests"? Someone you're forced to marry/arranged to marry =/= love interest. And if that were what the list is about, where is an Arryn? Lysa wanted her to marry Sweetrobin.

I don't see what people mentioned in Dunk & Egg have to do with what a character who has nothing to do with Dunk & Egg has been arranged to marry or will be arranged to marry 100 years later. It's just a bunch of familiar last names because there are only so many great houses in the realm.

Well Sansa was never really arranged to marry Sansa. That was just something in Lysa's head.

It's not just a bunch of familiar family names because the Hardyng's are hardly ever mentioned in the books. I think they're only ever mentioned in reference to Harrald Hardyng and Sansa's storyline in the Vale. It's either a massive coincidence or a clue from GRRM.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Let's think about this has Dorne seemed willing to support Targs without marriage?

Viserys and Dany were beggars on the street. Doran never sent them any aid or gave them hint that he knew they were alive unless the subject of marriage came up. Quentyn wasn't going to give her support free.

Then again, Viserys and Dany were not Elia's kids. Aegon is his nephew.

What I'm saying is, it could really go either way at this point. It's all up in the air.

[ARYa_Nym]

Then again, Viserys and Dany were not Elia's kids. Aegon is his nephew.

What I'm saying is, it could really go either way at this point. It's all up in the air.

There are no DNA tests in Westeros. That is just what Aegon is claiming. Afterall when Dany was in Essos some guy told her they saw a Lyseni prostitute that looked exactly like her.

[dame]

I think the maid or lady of the house starts off crowned as the Queen of love and beauty and then her title of defended. At the Ashford tourney no one else was crowned so the maid retained her title. I guess this hints that Sansa gain what ever power or position she ends up with in her own right and not though marriage.

I am not really sure the tale is liked to Sansa story, but that would be great. Truth be told I don't see Sansa getting married on screen and certenly not an arranged marriage .

Well Sansa was never really arranged to marry Sansa. That was just something in Lysa's head.

It's not just a bunch of familiar family names because the Hardyng's are hardly ever mentioned in the books. I think they're only ever mentioned in reference to Harrald Hardyng and Sansa's storyline in the Vale. It's either a massive coincidence or a clue from GRRM.

Isn't Sansa kind of unmarriable especially for the Heir of a big house?