GOODKIND VI: THE PHANTOM MENACING

[The Wolf Maid]

Phantom by Terry Goodkind

From its initial book, Wizard's First Rule, through its last installment, Chainfire, the bestselling Sword of Truth series has exhibited an originality that reaches beyond the borders of fantasy to thrill all fans of inventive fiction. Phantom, the 10th novel in Goodkind's compelling saga of Richard Cypher and Kahlan Amnell, finds Kahlan awakening on a day when the world is on the brink of annihilation — with no memory but her name.

...beyond the borders of fantasy into new heights of absurdity and comedy....

Why do heroes always wake up in a world on the brink of annihilation? They need to keep awake more.

[Mercury Poisoning]

Could some one give me the link me to the interview where Terry says that fantasy books don't have plots or characterization? My Google searches have been fruitless.

[The Stranger]

Could some one give me the link me to the interview where Terry says that fantasy books don't have plots or characterization? My Google searches have been fruitless.

yeah. whenever I try to google "cocksucking asshole" i get completely different results.

in other news, my attempt to read Stone of Tears has seen me boldly progress to about page 20. so far, an evil ghost-monkey is busy jobbing some soldiers with penetrating blue eyes, and Zedd keeps swearing, or people keep thinking he's swearing.

The skreeling threw the door aside and pattered forward on its long claws, making that horrifying half-laughing sound in its throat. "Bags," Zedd swore. (he wasn't mad enough to up the ante to Boxes! or, even worse, Satchel!)

[Larry.]

For a real blast from the past, read this multipage thread devoted to Canada, freedom, and Goodkind's comments. Then look around that site and see how small it is. Go to the other official site and see how small it is. Then look at the sites often accused of 'attacking' Goodkind and his fans. Notice a difference in membership and activity?

Then sit back, chuckle maybe, and then keep it all to the QotD. Much else just gives more creedence to the notion that Goodkind's ideological beliefs are in the mainstream of American/Western thought. Sadly, this post could be construed that way :sick:

But then again, I'd rather go off 'slaying kittens' than to have to read more Tairy

[Tes'thesula]

I'm surprised the 'yawn that was not a yawn' from Naked Empire hasn't come up yet in these threads.

[Elrostar]

I'm surprised the 'yawn that was not a yawn' from Naked Empire hasn't come up yet in these threads.

Yawn that is not a yawn? This sounds fascinating. Tell me more...

Maybe it's what happens when you're tired but not really tired? Or is it when you are filled with fatigue after having been chased by a chicken that is not a chicken?

[Hark]

So this is a recurring theme in the books, with the world being on the brink of annihilation and stuff?

Disclaimer: I have only read the first book, and about 100 pages of the second.

From what I understand, the formula is:

1) Richard learns of a great evil which poses a grave threat to the world.

2) Richard and Kahlan are separated while Richard deals with the threat.

3) Richard saves the world from the threat and is reunited with Kahlan.

Again and again and again.

[mormont]

Disclaimer: I have only read the first book, and about 100 pages of the second.

From what I understand, the formula is:

1) Richard learns of a great evil which poses a grave threat to the world.

2) Richard and Kahlan are separated while Richard deals with the threat.

3) Richard saves the world from the threat and is reunited with Kahlan.

Again and again and again.

I may have mentioned this before, but IMO this is exactly why Goodkind is popular. It's formulaic and predictable.

I know a few Goodkind fans (including my ex and my father) in real life, you see... but not one of them cares a whit about Objectivism and 'moral clarity', indeed they mostly ignore those bits (if they're even aware of them) and describe the long-winded speeches as 'boring' and complain about them.

They like the books because they're simple and predictable - the author makes no bones about who the 'bad guys' and who the 'good guys' are supposed to be, and you know that the 'good guys' will always win in the end.

It's the very undemanding nature of the books they like, which is ironic, considering TG seems to think that his books are intellectually stimulating and challenging.

[Elrostar]

I may have mentioned this before, but IMO this is exactly why Goodkind is popular. It's formulaic and predictable.

I know a few Goodkind fans (including my ex and my father) in real life, you see... but not one of them cares a whit about Objectivism and 'moral clarity', indeed they mostly ignore those bits (if they're even aware of them) and describe the long-winded speeches as 'boring' and complain about them.

They like the books because they're simple and predictable - the author makes no bones about who the 'bad guys' and who the 'good guys' are supposed to be, and you know that the 'good guys' will always win in the end.

It's the very undemanding nature of the books they like, which is ironic, considering TG seems to think that his books are intellectually stimulating and challenging.

But these "fans" aren't really "true fans" since they're not properly appreciating the art that Terry Goodkind (Blessed Be His Name) has produced. I mean, for one thing, it sounds like they're enjoying these books as fantasy, which is just shocking. Should they even be allowed to read the books if they can't understand the deeper significance of them?

On a side note, Mormont, how could you live with yourself knowing that the people around you were posessed of a complete lack of moral clarity? And yet you did nothing to change this deplorable fact? I'm left wondering as to the clarity of your morals, my friend...

[The Wolf Maid]

The skreeling threw the door aside and pattered forward on its long claws, making that horrifying half-laughing sound in its throat. "Bags," Zedd swore. (he wasn't mad enough to up the ante to Boxes! or, even worse, Satchel!)

TG probably wrote this before he discovered the theasaurus.

[Brys]

Could some one give me the link me to the interview where Terry says that fantasy books don't have plots or characterization? My Google searches have been fruitless.

The original version was taken down by Goodkind fans (they finally realised it made him look bad), but it lives on here

The essential attributes of a novel are: Theme, Plot, Characterization. These are not the essential attributes of a fantasy book. The essential attribute that dominates a fantasy is its mystical or magical aspects. A novel, dominated, driven and defined by mystical elements, can certainly be a fantasy. But a saga (a long detailed report), dominated by mystical elements, can be a fantasy as well. World building books are fantasies when driven by magic. Sagas (generally a subcategory of Naturalism) and world building books (which also usually fall under the broad category of Naturalism) can be fantasies, but they are not novels; they lack the requisite elements of Theme, Plot, and Characterization. (Naturalism is a school of art that denies the existence of volition, thereby dismissing the need for plot. Romanticism, the category of art to which my novels belong, is based on the principle of volition and all that entails.)

I take it then that I don't actually read fantasy books, on the whole. Martin clearly doesn't write fantasy according to this definition. I love that Terry tries to describe himself as belonging to the school of romanticism. He has a rather high opinion of himself, doesn't he, trying to compare himself to the likes of Wordsworth, Coleridge, Blake, Byron etc. To my knowledge, none of them wrote anything like "she completely understood in that moment the concept of the chicken that was not a chicken" or "Richard's thing rose up in him". Sorry, I'm taking this too seriously - but I still am amazed that Goodkind was actually being serious when he said this.

But these "fans" aren't really "true fans" since they're not properly appreciating the art that Terry Goodkind (Blessed Be His Name) has produced

Absolutely true, these so called "fans" assertions are nothing but a note wrapped around a brick thrown through a window who hate that his books exist. They hate that anything good in the world could exist. They're either too stupid or too young to be reading his books.

[Agulla]

Now I understand Terry perpetual lack of satisfaction, his "I'm angry" attitude during the interviews, that serious look in the pictures we have of him.

He knows that some of his fans do not get the message. He is trying hard, having his characters give longer speeches and being even less subtle in his political concepts. Nothing seems to work and because of this when he looks at the newspapers bestsellers he wonders: "how many of these thousands are just buying my books for the fun of it?".

It's distressing. Imagine Jesus trying to convey his message, talking to his disciples and followers and one of them saying: "This is all right but cut it short please. We want to hear again about the man who sends his son to the fields and the workers kill the boy, that one rocked!"

It's a good thing for Christianism that Jesus never had to face the problems that Terry is facing right now.

[The Wolf Maid]

It's distressing. Imagine Jesus trying to convey his message, talking to his disciples and followers and one of them saying: "This is all right but cut it short please. We want to hear again about the man who sends his son to the fields and the workers kill the boy, that one rocked!"

It's a good thing for Christianism that Jesus never had to face the problems that Terry is facing right now.

Agulla, that was just priceless.

[Elrostar]

He could have saved himself a lot of trouble by writing something less... umm... accessible to the masses? You know, an actual philosophical treatise or something? Well, I suppose that would probably be beyond his intellectual capability, but that might prevent it from being abused and read purely for entertainment purposes.

On another note, I think the Bible is lacking in sufficient usage of the phrase "that one rocked".

[Moosicus]

On another note, I think the Bible is lacking in sufficient usage of the phrase "that one rocked".

The Bible also lacked phrases such as: "Blessed are the peace protesters, for they shall get chopped into hamburger by the messiah."

"Blessed are mean children, for their jaws shall be shattered by the boot of the messiah."

"Blessed are the filthy whores, cuz the messiah thinks you're hawt."

and of course "Gratch luuug Jeee zuuuz!"

[MinDonner]

Hmmm.....

"A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine.

The man rose up, and declared "Lo, your mercy to me displays your weakness!" His naked chest did heave manfully, as he dispatched the peace-loving do-gooder with a single blow."

There's a lesson for us all, kids.

and of course "Gratch luuug Jeee zuuuz!"

[Elrostar]

Hmmm.....

"A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine.

The man rose up, and declared "Lo, your mercy to me displays your weakness!" His naked chest did heave manfully, as he dispatched the peace-loving do-gooder with a single blow."

There's a lesson for us all, kids.

Damn... I can see there's room for copying imitating being inspired by this idea and re-writing other parables to bring them more into line with the thinking of Terry Goodkind (Blessed Be His Name). I feel that there should be a reference to the man's thing rising up as a result of killing the do-gooder, perhaps?

[theMountainGoat]

Min Donner you are quickly becoming my favourite boarder. Keep up the good work

[The Wolf Maid]

MinDonner, you are a genius. :bow:

OMG. I could almost see TG writing about the little children scene (you know, the 'only those who are like children may enter the kingdom of God' bit). He tells the disciples to kick all little children in the jaw, because even children can be evil.

[Jaxom 1974]

I know a few Goodkind fans (including my ex and my father) in real life, you see... but not one of them cares a whit about Objectivism and 'moral clarity', indeed they mostly ignore those bits (if they're even aware of them) and describe the long-winded speeches as 'boring' and complain about them.

They like the books because they're simple and predictable - the author makes no bones about who the 'bad guys' and who the 'good guys' are supposed to be, and you know that the 'good guys' will always win in the end.

It's the very undemanding nature of the books they like, which is ironic, considering TG seems to think that his books are intellectually stimulating and challenging.

Confession time: There was a point when I had no problems with the SoT series. To me, it was just another fantasy book that was easy to digest. I think I even ended up picking it up because of the shiny cover (I can't remember exactly why I picked it up), but I could get through them quickly. In fact, after reading WFR, I grabbed Stone of Tears and Blood of the Fold (still like that name even if it never made quite the sense I wanted it to for the name of an army, though it just rolls off the tongue don't it?) and took them on vacation where I used them as my poolside books. Great for that they were.

Of course, I've since come to realize that they're not meant ot be poolside reads.

After some time, I truly got bored with the series. There was a repitiveness to the formula that grated. There was a certain element within the stories that just made it hard to suspend disbelief (and this was a fantasy story, I don't care what the author calls them). PLus there was something else there I couldn't place my finger on. I felt like I was being hit over the head with a hammer reading Faith of the Fallen.

Of course, I'm not perceptive enough to truly understand the story, though I assure you I should be old enough.

Since then, obviously, my much more perceptive friends here have helped me find where the messages were hidden within the SoT books...frankly it isn't much of a message that I'd find myself, my nature, willing to get behind...I think that's why I had that buzzing in the back of my head.

What's my point? I don't know. I just know that there was a time when I was a fan who couldn't have been a fan.

I know that now. My name is Jaxom 1974 and I've had a problem.