Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Is there an interview or SSM about the similarities of Ragnarok and ASoIF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There's nothing in the SSM entries. Still possible it comes up in a video interview but of course those aren't easily searchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 This blog on Ragnarok blew my mind. Read the other articles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cry_Havoc Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This blog on Ragnarok blew my mind. Read the other articles too. I've read all his articles and he makes a very compelling case. Especially for Jaime being Azor Ahai, although for me the text seems to point more toward Jon. GRRM also uses the War of the Roses as inspiration, but he has stated repeatedly that ASOIF is not simply a retelling with different character names. I think we should keep that in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The simple answer is that Norse mythology is one of the mythologies that GRRM is referencing but it is not the only one. In his interviews he has actually singled out Zoroastrianism as an inspiration for the Red Priests. Celtic mythology is also overtly referenced. And if you read closely enough I think Greek mythology is subtly referenced. And if you really read between the lines I think he has included Arabic and Hindu myths. My guess is there are mythological references that I'm not picking up because I'm too unfamiliar with the source material. I doubt he'd ever say in an interview that he is retelling the story of Ragnorak. First, if that is what he is doing, he is not going to give that much of his plot away. Secondly, I doubt that the series can be summed up that simply, my guess is he is interweaving a number of apocalypic mythological tales. (including Judeo Christian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've read all his articles and he makes a very compelling case. Especially for Jaime being Azor Ahai, although for me the text seems to point more toward Jon. GRRM also uses the War of the Roses as inspiration, but he has stated repeatedly that ASOIF is not simply a retelling with different character names. I think we should keep that in my mind. He also makes the Nights King out to be John. It may be Stannis. Or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This blog on Ragnarok blew my mind. Read the other articles too.Heresy was writing about Norse Mythology back then too. Martin has a lot of influences it is better not to base any one theme on his works. That blog could be all original work but just looking at it, it seems the writer has borrowed some ideas from other theories. Heavily borrowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 With Heresey being 89 threads, it is too dense to digest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There are some similarities with names and certain characters, but the theory as a whole seems a little thin. So much of it relies on characters completely changing motivations (or at least, changing motivations within the next two books) in order to fit with their Ragnarok counterpart. For example, Jon leading the White walkers: the whole point of Jon's arc (or so I thought) was essentially to wake him up to the fact that wildlings are peoplle too and that the WW are the true enemy. If he's simply going to turn around and join them, why did GRRM bother to tell us Jon's story at all? Why do we need to hear Bran's thoughts and motivations if he's simply going to become a stooge for Bloodraven instead of a power in his own right? GRRM rights about the human condition - the preset and unalterable nature of Ragnarok might have been an influence, but I'll be very surprised (and very disappointed) if it's the be all and end all of his series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 There are some similarities with names and certain characters, but the theory as a whole seems a little thin. So much of it relies on characters completely changing motivations (or at least, changing motivations within the next two books) in order to fit with their Ragnarok counterpart. For example, Jon leading the White walkers: the whole point of Jon's arc (or so I thought) was essentially to wake him up to the fact that wildlings are peoplle too and that the WW are the true enemy. If he's simply going to turn around and join them, why did GRRM bother to tell us Jon's story at all? Why do we need to hear Bran's thoughts and motivations if he's simply going to become a stooge for Bloodraven instead of a power in his own right? GRRM rights about the human condition - the preset and unalterable nature of Ragnarok might have been an influence, but I'll be very surprised (and very disappointed) if it's the be all and end all of his series. Annakin Skywalker was supposed to restore balance to the force and order to the universe, not join the Sith as Darth Vader. But he did restore it, not before he almost destroyed it all. The last vestige of humanity inside him threw the emperor into the abyss. Perhaps Jon has a similar arc? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Annakin Skywalker was supposed to restore balance to the force and order to the universe, not join the Sith as Darth Vader. But he did restore it, not before he almost destroyed it all. The last vestige of humanity inside him threw the emperor into the abyss. Perhaps Jon has a similar arc? Dunno. That's actually quite a good analogy, I'll grant you, but the total focus of the new trilogy on Anakin Skywalker is just one of the reasons I hate the Star Wars prequels. I genuinely can't tell if my unwillingness to accept this theory is because I don't think it matches GRRM's style or because it runs counter to my own expectations of the series. (Maybe a little of both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 It will not be a Ragnarok cut and paste job. But the primary archetypes, names, features, backgrounds, and other narratives from Ragnarok is uncanny. More than anything else. Yes there is War of the Roses, yes there is influence from Mongols, Zoroastrians, Celts etc. But Ragnarok is the song of ice and fire. The battle of the two worlds and for the future of humanity with seasons that magically change and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've read all his articles and he makes a very compelling case. Especially for Jaime being Azor Ahai, although for me the text seems to point more toward Jon. GRRM also uses the War of the Roses as inspiration, but he has stated repeatedly that ASOIF is not simply a retelling with different character names. I think we should keep that in my mind. Interesting read, indeed, but I think the writer missed one trick: Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant. A face half beautiful and half dead? That has to be Shireen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Warg Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah, I've just read that, that kinda blew my mind too, no doubt in my mind that GRRM used that as an inspiration but it WILL not play out exactly as the stories did of that i'm 99.99% certain, GRRM the 'smasher of cliches' using an ancient story as a complete guide, i cannot buy it. Perhaps mostly because Jon and Bran are my favorite characters and although is plausible Jon will join the WW I just can't, with all the evidence towards him being AAR (and his personality), see it happening. Also, Tommen TPTWP???? Peeeerlease.(No literally please George let's not be having that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Interesting read, indeed, but I think the writer missed one trick: Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant. A face half beautiful and half dead? That has to be Shireen... That particular association never occurred to me, good catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Interesting read, indeed, but I think the writer missed one trick: Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant. A face half beautiful and half dead? That has to be Shireen... I thought Shireen was ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Interesting read, indeed, but I think the writer missed one trick: Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant. A face half beautiful and half dead? That has to be Shireen... GRRM commissioned figurines of Melissandre looking gaunt and the color of a wight with an ice flame,. He is right. Shireen is probably just a kings blood sacrifice. May be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Annakin Skywalker was supposed to restore balance to the force and order to the universe, not join the Sith as Darth Vader. But he did restore it, not before he almost destroyed it all. The last vestige of humanity inside him threw the emperor into the abyss. Perhaps Jon has a similar arc? Dunno.IMHO Dany is much more likely to walk path similar to that of anakin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Interesting read, indeed, but I think the writer missed one trick: Hel, the Queen of the Dead. Hel rules over the dead in an icy underworld called Niflheim (reserved for those unfortunate souls who didn't get into Valhalla). She wears a face that is both half-beautiful, and half-dead, and in her role as Sinmara, she's the consort of Surtr, the fire giant. A face half beautiful and half dead? That has to be Shireen... Shireen is Hel? I can totally be down with that. Hel is actually much more benevolent that people think. Mel is probably the more accurate Hel figure, but ehh. I like that Shireen idea. :dunno: Funny thing about Surtr, dude really doesnt have much in the way of motive. He just shows up with an army of fire giants from Muspelheim and wrecks shit and then gets all fucked up in the process. He doesnt even have this whole "Big Evil Guy" persona. Hes just there. He just...happens. Anyway, again im going to say it. This series is not entirely based around the idea of Ragnarok. The stories and sagas have existed for ages, so naturally there will be cultural inspiration and influence from them. But to say its entirely based around Norse Mythology is lulzy. /heathen out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 IMHO Dany is much more likely to walk path similar to that of anakin According to the blog, Mel, Jon and Dany will be under Bloodravens influence. I got the feeling that Marwyn The Mage is going to Dany to do his work. He talked about dream telecomunication etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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