WheelofIceandFire Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Cant wait for the fight at the Inn (most reviews say that its the final scene of the episode, which i hope is true but ive read one that says Dany closes the episode) This should be a great season for Arya (and The Hound). D&D seem to have added much more to their story before Arya leaves so im looking forward to seeing their relationship develop (and they are involved in more action/fighting than expected from the looks of the trailers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Not that i'm opposedto more arya and sandor, but how much can you actually add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Cant wait for the fight at the Inn (most reviews say that its the final scene of the episode, which i hope is true but ive read one that says Dany closes the episode) This should be a great season for Arya (and The Hound). D&D seem to have added much more to their story before Arya leaves so im looking forward to seeing their relationship develop (and they are involved in more action/fighting than expected from the looks of the trailers) Which reviews say it ended the episode? I only read ones which said it ended with Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The difference between Dany and Stannis has always been that Dany acts on her best judgement, whereas Stannis acts, without question or hesitation, on what the law dictates. I find it truly odd that someone like that has garnered such a huge fanbase here. Dany burned a woman alive whose only crime was saving hundreds and thousands of people from rape, slavery and death. She could have had her put to a quick death but instead took great satisfaction in hearing her screams as she burned at Drogo's funeral pyre. If your going to come onto this forum and try to have an intelligent debate please try to think what you're posting first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Dany burned a woman alive whose only crime was saving hundreds and thousands of people from rape, slavery and death. She could have had her put to a quick death but instead took great satisfaction in hearing her screams as she burned at Drogo's funeral pyre. If your going to come onto this forum and try to have an intelligent debate please try to think what you're posting first. I never said her best judgement wasn't often misguided. I don't agree with many of her decisions, and think she would ultimately be a terrible ruler in Westeros, but this idea that she's some kind of antagonist is very strange. I personally can't stand Stannis, though I wouldn't consider him morally inferior to Dany in terms of his actions – I just find his personality detestable. As I said, I find it strange that someone with no governing sense of morality who abides strictly and unwaveringly by the law is such a hugely popular character here. Bolded part is incredibly condescending and rude. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I didn't put thought into what I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go joff go Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Tbf the original introductions in the show have largely been excellent, particularly Tywin, and the whole Stark family scene in the pilot. Sounds like they are keeping this up with Oberyn. I never really thought about it but it's definitely true. Most of the characters have pretty bandanas intro scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I personally can't stand Stannis, though I wouldn't consider him morally inferior to Dany in terms of his actions – I just find his personality detestable. As I said, I find it strange that someone with no governing sense of morality who abides strictly and unwaveringly by the law is such a hugely popular character here. We are most certainly reading different books then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obebb Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Recently those clips with Bran and that Jojen quote have me slightly worried. "You need to make it..." and Bran drags himself in front of Bloodraven all alone (or I'm assuming it's BR)... what happened to Meera and Hodor? I don't even know what I'm thinking but somehow I have a bad feeling :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Recently those clips with Bran and that Jojen quote have me slightly worried. "You need to make it..." and Bran drags himself in front of Bloodraven all alone (or I'm assuming it's BR)... what happened to Meera and Hodor? I don't even know what I'm thinking but somehow I have a bad feeling :uhoh: Nah i don't think anything has happened to them. Reed siblings are quite important to Bran's storyline, they won't go just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So I definitely hope that we'll get an unlikeable Arya on the show. Maisie Williams has been teasing us with that for a while now. I think that's essentially the way to look at that character: to her and to some readers the way she murders people it's justified but we all know that if she killed someone we like for her own reasons we'd condemn her for it so there are no exceptions: vengeance is never the answer and too many people rationalize it with Arya just because they like her and so it's going to be fun to have people disagree with her actions for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 ^I wonder which big likeable character Arya will end up killing by the end of the books? Yeah, Maisie saying all of that makes me look forward to S5. Hopefully the new climate will mean a new costume, she must be sick of running around in the same jerkin for three damn seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yeah, black an white robes for her from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Totally forgot that Show!Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon are alive. I believe that book Ramsay knows they are alive too it was him who suggested that theon kill the two other boys and pass them off as the stark boys...I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 yeah, it was ramsay's plan, only because he enjoys flaying people. Someone should introduce that guy to playing boardgames as a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 We are most certainly reading different books then. Care to elaborate? That was a bit of an exaggeration, I'll admit. However, you can't deny that he obeys strict judicial guidelines much more than any compassionate, merciful sense of morality. He's also petty, and seems unable to understand human emotion beyond "I am their rightful King. Why can't they just obey me?" (see Jon's first ADWD chapter, where he tears up the Mormont girl's letter). This is all a matter of opinion, of course, but I just can't get behind somebody like that. Every time he comes into conflict with another character, I find myself inexplicably rooting against him (be it Tywin, Mance Rayder, or even Ramsay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Care to elaborate?Hold up.That was a bit of an exaggeration, I'll admit. However, you can't deny that he obeys strict judicial guidelines much more than any compassionate, merciful sense of morality. He's also petty, and seems unable to understand human emotion beyond "I am their rightful King. Why can't they just obey me?" (see Jon's first ADWD chapter, where he tears up the Mormont girl's letter). This is all a matter of opinion, of course, but I just can't get behind somebody like that. Every time he comes into conflict with another character, I find myself inexplicably rooting against him (be it Tywin, Mance Rayder, or even Ramsay).Opposite of this. He is not compassionate you say? He pardoned every lord that bent the knee to him, ofcourse he will punish them later on, but he is a pragmatical man. Seems to understand no human emotion you say. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother’s peach. "Wyman Manderly." The king's mouth twisted in contempt. "Lord Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse. Too fat to come to me, yet he comes to Winterfell. Too fat to bend the knee and swear me his sword, yet now he wields that sword for Bolton. I sent my Onion Lord to treat with him, and Lord Too-Fat butchered him and mounted his head and hands on the walls of White Harbor for the Freys to gloat over. And the Freys... has the Red Wedding been forgotten?" I am sorry but any person who roots for Tywin, Ramsey or Mance against Stannis is just pure blinded hate. I dislike Dany a lot, but i never rooted for Viserys, Kraznys or the Sons of the harpy. Anyways we are way off-topic. It'd be good if we end it here. I can see this escalating and totally derail this thread. Your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I personally can't stand Stannis, though I wouldn't consider him morally inferior to Dany in terms of his actions – I just find his personality detestable. As I said, I find it strange that someone with no governing sense of morality who abides strictly and unwaveringly by the law is such a hugely popular character here. No morality? He smashed the wildlings at the wall and instead of leaving them to die out in the cold he is welcoming all those that will bend the knee into the Gift. No other ruler or character has showed anything close to the compassion that Stannis offered the Wildlings. If that doesn't count as being caring and considerate then please explain. Now he is marching on Winterfell to liberate it from Bolton/Frey rule so he can ultimately win the North to his side but also to rescue fArya, punish those responsible for the Red Wedding, kill Ramsey & Roose Bolton and install a rightful Stark or Karstark there. I'm not sure what you consider morality to mean but George is clearly gearing Stannis up to be a hero(until he breaks). I am sorry but any person who roots for Tywin, Ramsey or Mance against Stannis is just pure blinded hate. I dislike Dany a lot, but i never rooted for Viserys, Kraznys or the Sons of the harpy. Anyways we are way off-topic. It'd be good if we end it here. I can see this escalating and totally derail this thread. Your pick. A couple of users on this site just have to constantly derail threads into Dany and Stannis hate. Its starting to really put me off this forum since it just goes round in circles. Back on topic! I'm very interested to see how they portray the whole Mereen plot. I never got invested into the new characters but on the screen it could work much better. The slave masters in Astapor and Yunkai were brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 No morality? He smashed the wildlings at the wall and instead of leaving them to die out in the cold he is welcoming all those that will bend the knee into the Gift. No other ruler or character has showed anything close to the compassion that Stannis offered the Wildlings. If that doesn't count as being caring and considerate then please explain. Now he is marching on Winterfell to liberate it from Bolton/Frey rule so he can ultimately win the North to his side but also to rescue fArya, punish those responsible for the Red Wedding, kill Ramsey & Roose Bolton and install a rightful Stark or Karstark there. I'm not sure what you consider morality to mean but George is clearly gearing Stannis up to be a hero(until he breaks). Pretty sure he wanted the Wildlings' support when he did that…he wasn't showing compassion or ethical strength. He definitely isn't a villain, though, I agree: I never said his actions were morally wrong. But he justifies them by adhering to a rigid moral and judicial code which he never strays from. He isn't lenient or forgiving. I just don't like people who break before they bend, I guess; I find them insufferable, an opinion which obviously isn't popular here. But yeah, we're getting way off topic, and this is all a matter of personal opinion anyway. I always say that the Stannis debate can never be settled because, in the end, we don't like characters based on the objective moral consequences of their actions, we like them because they have personalities we admire and enjoy reading about. Stannis is a much more moral character than, say, Jaime or Tyrion: that doesn't mean I have to like him more. So let's leave it at that and get back on topic. I hate it as much as anyone when threads descend into old arguments like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 He isn't lenient or forgiving. To be fair, he forgave Davos several times. And he forgave all the lords who declared for Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Dany burned a woman alive whose only crime was saving hundreds and thousands of people from rape, slavery and death. She could have had her put to a quick death but instead took great satisfaction in hearing her screams as she burned at Drogo's funeral pyre. If your going to come onto this forum and try to have an intelligent debate please try to think what you're posting first. "It is not your screams I want, only your life. I remember what you told me, only death can pay for life." Dany called out for the men of her khas and bid them take Mirri Maz Duur and bind her hand and foot, but the maegi smiled at her as they carried her off, as if they shared a secret. A word, and Dany could have her head off… yet then what would she have? A head? If life was worthless, what was death? Dany took no satisfaction from Mirri Maz Duur's death; she burned her to bring the dragons back to life, no more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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