Ukraine and Russia where will this go? AKA Ukraine VIII

[Phaing]

This is hilarious. So we dont even have to sanction these clowns. Just wait ten years for them to collapse.

gg russia, gg!

A dangerous assumption.

In the late 1970s, the CIA and others saw that the economy of the USSR was destined to collapse by the end of the 1980s.

They got that part right, at least.

The other half of the assumption was that rather than face that collapse, the USSR would open the ball on WW3, probably in 1985.

Turned out that the Party bosses just grabbed what they could of the State property and went slinkiing off into the shadows instead of putting it all on the line for the World Socialist Dominion or whatever it was. That was unexpected, but logical in hindsight.

If the assumption now is that they would just fall apart rather than go to war, a replay of last time, then I think too many people are expecting lightning to strike twice.

[Horza]

There were no US intelligence agencies predicting a Soviet economic implosion by the late 80s. Instead, throughout the late 70s and early 80s you had these guys telling the American public that the intelligence agencies were being fooled and the Soviets were actually getting stronger.

[Borque]

They've arrested a few ex-Berkut for the Maidan shootings.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26868119

According to an inquiry that doesn't even exist according to some here, Yanukovich gave the orders.

And the Russian FSB apparently had other stuff planned involving explosives etc. Does that count as "meddling", if true?

[E-Ro]

If Russia didn't have nukes this wouldn't be a problem. Any conventional war against America and NATO is sure to end in defeat. And everyone knows it. It's too bad there is no way to just neutralize nuclear weapons so that no one can use them.

[The Marquis de Leech]

There were no US intelligence agencies predicting a Soviet economic implosion by the late 80s. Instead, throughout the late 70s and early 80s you had these guys telling the American public that the intelligence agencies were being fooled and the Soviets were actually getting stronger.

Indeed. No-one on either side of the divide predicted the implosion. For their part, the Brezhnev era Soviets were largely content with comfortable mediocrity, and spent their new oil revenue on flashy military toys. It wasn't until Gorbachev's perestroika that stagnation became a crisis.

[Doireidh]

They've arrested a few ex-Berkut for the Maidan shootings.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26868119

According to an inquiry that doesn't even exist according to some here, Yanukovich gave the orders.

And the Russian FSB apparently had other stuff planned involving explosives etc. Does that count as "meddling", if true?

Is there a chance that that evidence (those photos and slides he was presenting) is posted somewhere on the net? I would very much like to see them..

The FSB part honestly looks like the usual made-up stuff that gets thrown around in situations like this. In the highly unlikely case that it's true though, it would be considered as meddling, yes.

Also, another inquiry concluded that Muziychko "shot himself in the heart as police tried to wrestle him to the ground".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26849934

I'm sceptical about this one too, can someone who knows Ukrainian translate the important parts of the inquiry?

[Phaing]

There were no US intelligence agencies predicting a Soviet economic implosion by the late 80s. ...

I was there, I read them. And since that is never good enough lets go with everyone's fav;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_of_Soviet_collapse

As for "those guys";

"Sovietology failed because it operated in an environment that encouraged failure. Sovietologists of all political stripes were given strong incentives to ignore certain facts and focus their interest in other areas. I don't mean to suggest that there was a giant conspiracy at work; there wasn't. It was just that there were no careers to be had in questioning the conventional wisdom...

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/271828/predicting-soviet-collapse-paul-kengor

“The Soviet economy,” Meyer insisted, “is heading toward calamity.”

[Ser Loudmouth]

Some rather horrific demographic numbers about Russia that the author suggests are behind some of their recent actions:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/03/numbers-vladimir-putin-doesnt-want-you-to-see

The numbers on some of that shit are crazy.

I have seen numerous articles these days mentioning this issue of the declining Russian population, and all this talk about Russia's impending demographic collapse got me thinking: How likely is it that in the near future we'll see the Russians in Transnistria, Crimea, Ukraine, The Baltics, etc. making "aliyah" to Russia proper to in order at least stabilize demographically the core regions? That would be one way of solving all these ethnic conflicts...

[Phaing]

I have seen numerous articles these days mentioning this issue of the declining Russian population, and all this talk about Russia's impending demographic collapse got me thinking: How likely is it that in the near future we'll see the Russians in Transnistria, Crimea, Ukraine, The Baltics, etc. making "aliyah" to Russia proper to in order at least stabilize demographically the core regions? That would be one way of solving all these ethnic conflicts...

Interesting idea, and it would be a more stable solution than what Europe is doing to bring in Muslims to keep themselves Demographicly viable.

But, Russia finds them very useful, and would have to abandon their Empire-building schemes. In other words; not while Putin is still around.

And also - Russians have been trying to get out of Russia since before the Czars came to power, what is there to lure them back?

[Lummel]

I have seen numerous articles these days mentioning this issue of the declining Russian population, and all this talk about Russia's impending demographic collapse got me thinking: How likely is it that in the near future we'll see the Russians in Transnistria, Crimea, Ukraine, The Baltics, etc. making "aliyah" to Russia proper to in order at least stabilize demographically the core regions? That would be one way of solving all these ethnic conflicts...

To some extent that has already been happening - slightly less than a million and a half Russians have already left Kazakhstan since independence, I imagine that the incentives to move to Russia are much lower if you are in the Baltic states.

[Hereward]

Interesting idea, and it would be a more stable solution than what Europe is doing to bring in Muslims to keep themselves Demographicly viable.

But, Russia finds them very useful, and would have to abandon their Empire-building schemes. In other words; not while Putin is still around.

And also - Russians have been trying to get out of Russia since before the Czars came to power, what is there to lure them back?

What? Britain's population is booming and the greatest external part of that is Catholics from Eastern Europe

[Shryke]

What? Britain's population is booming and the greatest external part of that is Catholics from Eastern Europe

Don't worry Hereward, we'll have have this Act of Supremacy tomfoolery cleared up soon. It'll be nothing but a historical blip eventually where everyone afterwards goes "Man, what were they thinking?". You know, like the 80s.

[Altherion]

I have seen numerous articles these days mentioning this issue of the declining Russian population, and all this talk about Russia's impending demographic collapse got me thinking: How likely is it that in the near future we'll see the Russians in Transnistria, Crimea, Ukraine, The Baltics, etc. making "aliyah" to Russia proper to in order at least stabilize demographically the core regions? That would be one way of solving all these ethnic conflicts...

There is no chance of it happening unless the places where they currently live become strongly anti-Russian and/or economically collapse or Russia somehow becomes a lot more desirable than it currently is. People don't leave their homes because there is an absence of their ethnicity somewhere in the world -- they do it because somebody drives them out or because they're going to what they believe is a better place.

[SpaceChampion]

I don't know where else to put this but I had to share: a Soviet-era erotic Cyrillic alphabet book.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I was there, I read them. And since that is never good enough lets go with everyone's fav;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_of_Soviet_collapse

As for "those guys";

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/271828/predicting-soviet-collapse-paul-kengor

I believe the relevant expression involves a certain broken timepiece offering correct chronological readings twice a day. Predictions of imminent collapse had been taking place since 1917. But until the instability ushered in by Gorbachev, there was no particular reason to predict a collapse. If you'd told anyone at Brezhnev's funeral that ten years hence, the country wouldn't exist, they'd have laughed at you.

[thetitansbastard]

Don't worry Hereward, we'll have have this Act of Supremacy tomfoolery cleared up soon. It'll be nothing but a historical blip eventually where everyone afterwards goes "Man, what were they thinking?". You know, like the 80s.

"It'll" = "Crimea Crisis"? Historical blip sure, but relatively no one will be saying anything about it or even know about it.

[Dicer]

Following Congress’ decision to approve a $1 billion aid package to Ukraine last week, former libertarian Congressman Ron Paul has published an op-ed strongly criticizing it as a bad deal for both American taxpayers and Ukrainian citizens.

In the column, published by Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, the iconic libertarian said the bill effectively puts the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in charge of the Ukrainian economy, needlessly directs money towards “democracy promotion” and additional sanctions on Russia. He also accused the US government of ignoring its own role in the crisis currently unfolding in Eastern Europe.

Paul said the economic plan outlined by the IMF would raise energy prices and taxes in Ukraine, as well as freeze wages and make life more difficult for the average citizen.

“This $1 billion for Ukraine is a rip-off for the America taxpayer, but it is also a bad deal for Ukrainians,” he wrote.

“Not a single needy Ukrainian will see a penny of this money, as it will be used to bail out international banks who hold Ukrainian government debt.”

In addition to funneling money towards the IMF plan, the bill includes funding for outlets such as Radio Free Europe and Voice of America, which Paul said have been used “to broadcast US government propaganda” into Ukraine for 10 years with little to show for the effort.

“Recently a democratically-elected government was overthrown by violent protesters,” he wrote. “That is the opposite of democracy, where governments are changed by free and fair elections. What is shocking is that the US government and its NGOs were on the side of the protesters!

“Washington does not want to talk about its own actions that led to the coup, instead focusing on attacking the Russian reaction to US-instigated unrest next door to them.”

On the topic of Crimea, Paul has stated multiple times that Russia’s annexation of the peninsula is not a situation that requires the involvement of the United States. In his column, he reiterated that Crimeans voted to join Russia, and earlier this month told Politico, “self-determination is a centerpiece of international law.”

http://rt.com/usa/ron-paul-ukraine-aid-409/

Some hilarity:

Football’s world governing body FIFA, has refused to kick Russia out of the 2014 World Cup in Brazil, after two American senators said the country should be barred due to its actions in Ukraine.

Dan Coats and Mark Kirk wrote a letter to the organization based in Zurich in March asking for Russia’s membership to be suspended, and for the country to be barred from competing in this year’s World Cup in Brazil, as well as losing the right to host the event in four years’ time.

In a letter to the two senators, FIFA said participation in the World Cup is based on sporting merit and only a violation of FIFA statutes and regulations could lead to a suspension from a competition.

In a counter measure, two Russian politicians demanded that the United States should be banned from this year’s tournament in Brazil.

The petition to world football’s governing body was made by state Duma MPs Aleksandr Sidyakin and Mikhail Markelov.

"It's an eye for an eye, a ball for a ball. Don't let the USA take part in the 2014 World Cup! End their membership of FIFA," Sidyakin wrote on Twitter.

The duo sought the country’s expulsion because of its aggressive actions against Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya, as well as its attempts to encroach on Syria.

http://rt.com/news/fifa-football-russia-worldcup-089/

[Shryke]

"It'll" = "Crimea Crisis"? Historical blip sure, but relatively no one will be saying anything about it or even know about it.

Uh no. I mean, just wow. You missed the point so hard it's amazing.

[Shryke]

http://rt.com/usa/ron-paul-ukraine-aid-409/

Some hilarity:

http://rt.com/news/fifa-football-russia-worldcup-089/

Uh, Ron Paul is an idiot and FIFA is so incredibly corrupt, it makes the IOC look transparent.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

A friend of mine who lives in Baku Azerbijan tells me that Russian government controled media sources are saying they took Crimea to stop a genocide against Russians in Crimea. I've asked him for links. If true that's a huge ramp up by the Russians in the propaganda war and sounds like justification for further action.